sonofhamas

Zero Tolerance for “Ground Zero” Mosque

In ISLAM on July 16, 2010 at 14:13


The five-story building at 45-47 Park Place in Manhattan, two blocks north of “Ground Zero,” was built more than 150 years ago. The religion practiced within its walls, however, dates back nearly 1,500 years—and is directly responsible for the slaughter of nearly 3,000 Americans.

Last year, Soho Properties, a Muslim-run real estate company, paid $4.85 million cash for the property. Two of the investors—Cordoba Initiative and the American Society for Muslim Advancement—now want to turn it into what has been called a “mega mosque.”

According to its website, the “Cordoba Initiative hopes to build a $100 million, 13-story community center with Islamic, interfaith and secular programming.” In addition to the mosque, the project calls for a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, art exhibition spaces, bookstores and restaurants.

Please understand that I have no problem with buildings. But I have a very big problem with the politics and symbolism behind this building.

The proposed “Ground Zero” mosque, despite its humanitarian cocoon and politically correct marketing, would shout five times every day the contempt the American Muslim community has for thousands of innocent victims and their families. While Westerners who consider themselves chic and enlightened go to any lengths to avoid offending Islam, the Muslim community appears to think nothing of pouring acid in America’s open wounds.

Why was this particular site selected? Because the need for a $100 million mosque is so great? Because 45-47 Park Place is the only place left in Manhattan to put a mosque? No. Because it will make a powerful political and religious statement.

Americans need to understand that the soul of this so-called community center will be an altar to the god that justified and mandated the 9/11 massacre. If allowed to proceed unopposed, it will stand as a bold affirmation of the same Qur’an quoted on camera by 19 fedayeen as they prepared to kill themselves and thousands of innocent men and women. It will be a Petri dish for the virulent virus called Islam, a holy place where its dark god is honored and worshiped.

We need to remind ourselves where thousands of Muslims in America have come from. They came from mosques, just like the one the Cordoba Initiative wants to build up the street from the ruin of the World Trade Center. Mosques in Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. They came here to escape the corrupt systems and brutal regimes of their homelands.

From the oppression of these Quranic cultures, they came to America to enjoy the benefits of liberty and the protections of the Constitution. Now a growing number of Muslim organizations are using their precious freedoms of speech and religion as weapons against the freedoms themselves. They are using fine-sounding arguments to convince uniformed Westerners that Islam is peaceful, good and caring. And they shame others into feeling foolish and guilty if they dare to insist that the emperor is naked.

“I think this particular group of people in the Cordoba Institute can do a huge amount of good not only for Muslims in New York but also for interfaith relations throughout the country,” said Ibrahim Ramey, director of the Human and Civil Rights Division of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, on CNN’s American Morning.

If Cordoba and other Muslim organizations in America would like to “do a huge amount of good,” let them build a hospital instead of a mosque. Build something that will help the families of the 9/11 victims. Do something productive for humanity in general, instead of challenging liberty and confusing people about the realities of Islam. This is how they can generate good will, not by building a rock of offense two blocks from Ground Zero.

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  1. AMEN AND AMEN!!!

  2. I have said many times Mosab that God is using you to bring light into a dark world. When people educate themselves and realize the darkness of Islam only then can we defeat Satan.

    • Have u ever study Islam or u are just talking from what u have heard

      • are you asking this of Mosab or someone else? If it’s Mosab I would encourage you to read his book.

  3. You’re absolutely right, Mosab, they better had built hospitals or other helpful institutions instead of a mosque, proclaiming a false God. But that’s how the enemy is working, very subtle and confusing people,that’s why the bible calls us to be continuously alert!!
    Blessings

  4. Amen Mosab! Our judgement has fallen upon us and now we must be willing to stand firm and shine the light in a land that is being over run by darkness. May our Lord and Savior continue to use you to glorify His name and open the eyes of many!!

  5. I am always amazed at how many Americans are deceived and how easily they are deceived. I often wonder how many of those same people remember the emotions and feelings this entire nation experienced on 9/11. Thank you for sounding the alarm and being a light in America!

  6. There is fine line between freedom, freedom of speech and anarchy. These are historic times in American culture. There can not be absolute freedom of speech and religion, because this is what it leads to.

    There has to be a limit set on what people can and can not do. I will pray for all the families of the victims of 9/11, and I will also pray for all the Muslims behind this venture.

    I support any organization or person that fights for the right of people and fights to promote the One True God. This Islamic symbol should not be allowed to exist.

  7. I am so glad God brought you to the US and is using you to enlighten our country to the evilness of Islam.

  8. How can these people think that this will generate good will when no one but fellow Muslims want it there? Proof that there is a hidden agenda. It they were sensitive to how the families of the 9/11 victims feel they would choose not to built it; rather seek community input as to what to “build” there.

    • Hi Patti,

      What the Cordoba Initiative does & what they say are like two sides of a coin. Recent articles stipulate that Rauf is a slum lord & tax evader (property taxes). He has many law suits filed against him for violations in his buildings (rats, cockroaches, bedbugs, no heat or water). What does this tell you about the man?

      Millions have argued about the insensitive nature of this Mosque. The name has even been changed. I’ve been posting comments on Muslim Matters.org. They believe it would be a good thing to build this mosque & to my understanding, it would be 16 stories high. A very huge block of salt to rub into the wounds of those harmed in 9/11. I’ve recently posted a comment on that site & put the site address of Son of Hamas there. Asked all of them to read the articles here.

      Mosab has stated very clearly why this mosque should not be built & backs it up with facts. Maybe they will understand this & help stop it. A hospital for children would be wonderful. I think the community in NY would embrace this idea & the rest of America would breath a sigh of relief. Maybe some of the recent violence at different Mosques would also stop.

      I’ve only just started reading Mosab’s book. But I believe in him. God has sent us a great gift.
      This site is fantastic for everyone & I’ve sent it to many. I want everyone possible to read & understand what Mosab is trying to tell us. I’m also going to start reading the New Testament in English I can understand. I made that decision before reading a lot of these articles. So, I think I’m going in the right direction. I pray others do the same for their own religion.

      God Bless & Keep you safe
      God Bless America
      God Bless Mosab every day of his life & keep him safe.

  9. According to this blog, Islamic realtors should only develop hospitals and/or memorials near ground zero? Your view is fear-rousing and ignorant.

    • Hi Patti. It is your view that is ignorant. Mosab comes from a Muslim background. But through the light that comes from knowing Jesus Christ, he has rejected the darkness of Islam.

      May God bless you, Mosab, and open up doors that lead to a remarkable ministry. So many U.S. citizens are like Patty — in darkness or denial about Islam. They think that the people who brought about 9/11 were somehow following a version of Islam that is not authentic or true to the faith founded by Mohammed.

      May God use you in a mighty way to open eyes and hearts to the reality of Islam. But, most importantly, to the reality of the living God who is mighty to save.

      Brian

    • No. Your view is. Do you not have any compassion for the families of the 9-11 victims? I may not have known any of them but my heart breaks for them. I am outraged that they would even think of building a mosque there, I can’t imagine how outraged the families must feel. How can you be so insensitive and ignorant?

    • No, no. Building terrorist training centers is also acceptable.

      Seriously, how did you folks EXPECT the idea to be received?

  10. Amen Mosab. The Lord is with you

  11. Yes , the emperor is naked. There is peace in One Person only, The Prince of Peace, the Lord Jesus Christ. All other creeds and religions are idols of man’s depraved heart and can never bring peace. Mosab, keep clinging to Christ alone, and declaring His all-sufficient atoning sacrifice. Jesus drank the full cup of God’s wrath against man’s sin. Grace opens the door for man to repent and trust Christ alone. True religion is to help orphans and widows. How about a fund for the support of the orphans and fatherless who will never grow up knowing their mother or father as a result of 911? I think we have enough tall Babel buildings.

  12. It is truly wonderful having your voice to be added to the chorus of believers trying to sound the ALARM for truth. Thank YOU.

  13. Mosab,
    Thank you for once again speaking the Truth! As a Christian I continue to pray that Americans, particularly believers, will wake up and stop embracing an ideology that seeks their destruction! Sadly, it seems fairly large numbers of Americans are willing to blindly sacrifice their freedom and liberty on the altar of TOLERANCE! It seems to have never crossed their minds that those they are being so tolerant of have no intention of returning the favor! While we as Christians are commanded to love our enemies, the god of Islam is obviously not so charitable. Speaking the truth in love has never been more important for us as believers and Americans.

  14. DIsgusting ! Why not also let the Japanese build a Shinto Temple next to Pearl Harbour, or let Americans build churches wherever they bomb the Taleban ? Are they all not good for interfaith relations ?

    • Maybe when Christians are allowed to build a church in Mecca, then we could consider your concerns!!
      I urge you to stop living in this big lie and doubt for a second your faith like how Mosab did.

  15. Read the Challenge of Islam to Christians by David Pawson.
    May the Lord bless you and keep you brother.<

  16. Muslim communities are deeply divided into economic classes – the privileged and the poor. In southern philippines that is the case. the sultan-rajah classes always announce that they champion the welfare of ‘minority’ Muslims. they join the mainstream political processes like run for public office. once elected, they further their own economic interests then constantly complain that Manila/non-Muslim government has been neglecting Mindanao.
    meanwhile the poor among the moslems remain poor. ex: girls are deprived of education by marrying them off early in polygamous marriages especially if a sultan wants the virgin. another example: when poor moslems marry they ask the sultan to allow them to farm a piece of land that they have to return. they have totally discarded the communal system that used to be part of their culture. sultan families have vast landholdings titled to themselves. so there is a concentration of wealth in the sultanate class. they use the moslem poor whenever it’s convenient for their political propaganda. such duplicity.
    also , families give up their sons for 30-50 thousand pesos to terrorist groups.
    many women and educated moslems have converted to christianity but hide it.
    the abuse on the poor and on women are more extreme in moslem communities here.

  17. having a title to a property does not convey absolute rights. the US government should look beyond property rights and assert the primacy of justice rendered for victims.
    why doesn’t the Cordoba Institute build schools and hospitals in Islamic countries and help eliminate poverty – a cause they conveniently use to solicit sympathy and tolerance from the rest of the world.

  18. I am very sorry to say this. The fact: the mosque will be built, right? No matter how strong people resist it, that mosque will be built. Honestly, I never understood why muslim immigrants from middle east love to move to the non-muslim region and then try to apply for their freedom to execute their religious practice meanwhile in my own country, our own people have trouble in executing our belief. We are not immigrants and we are pure local people. I am sorry if some people are offended to see my comments but the truth is the truth. But to those who claim themselves as disciple/follower of Yahushua Hamashiach – the way of salvation (I don’t follow religion), we do NOT need churches or prayer halls but OUR BODY should be the church.

    YOCHANAN – 14:6 (From Hebrew translation)
    YAHUSHUA says to him(Toma), I am the Way, the Truth (Emet), and the Life (Hayat/Chayim): no man comes to the ABBA, but by Me.

  19. Great post Mosab. I have been following this outrage since spotting it at Pamela Geller’s Atlas Shrugs blog. I’m glag you have taken up the banner on this issue. It can only help coming from your first hand background. I, living in Australia for 14 years, and being a “to the death” patriot, am very saddened by the lack of American’s ability to see what socialist Dems are doing to her with all their complacency. Maybe this is God’s plan. To put the fear in us of the possibility we could lose the most precious freedoms found in man’s history. Our Freedoms and Liberties. I’m not racist against Muslims! I am vehemently against Islamism. It is vile and contains TRUE influence of Evil.

  20. The One True God is allowing this evil movement and these evil people to exist in order to awaken the Christian people to His greater good. It is time we stand up and proclaim His word. We have the power to speak against those in our own government-Federal, State and local who are sitting on their haunches because they are afraid of offending non believers. Islam is the devil and Islam is providing the money for this Tower of Babel. Bloomburg is saying these people are citizens of this country–how dumb can he be? We have to open our mouths people! Stand for God-stand for America

  21. Great post. Preach on, brother!

  22. Well said.

  23. Excuse me, the 9/11 attacks were carried out by crazed extremists. Many groups of people have committed atrocities in the name of one god or another. No religion is innocent of this. Not one.

    You know what? My Pagan ancestors were happy, dirt-worshiping, mother-goddess-loving, dance-round-the-fire-naked people before the Christians showed up and bulldozed our entire culture. Do I rage and froth at the mouth whenever I see a new church under construction? No, I don’t.

    That’s because I can’t blame every Christian in the world for the wrongs committed against my community or against myself personally. Do the churches, ubiquitous in nearly every Canadian city, remind me of those wrongs? Well, yeah. They can’t help but do so. Does it annoy me? Yeah, it kinda does. But the bottom line is: You cannot have freedom of religion unless you have freedom for ALL religions.

    Our teensie human brains cannot hope to comprehend all of the Divine. All we can say for sure, is that whatever it is, It’s big enough for all of us.

  24. I am so happy you are here! I have been praying for you and your safety. God Bless you in all you do!

  25. I agree with Ethan (in most respects). I find this article offensive because it generalizes the entire Muslim population. I question whether the writer was ever actually Muslim. Most will argue that he was BUT cut from a different cloth (Extremist) – well that should be the first indication that not ALL Muslims believe in the jihad (which when used in the correct sense – means internal jihad regarding faith not blowing people up). Secondly, every religion on Earth (as stated by Ethan) is guilty of heinous crimes! All in the name of God. Yet we do not stop them from building their respective “Houses of God” in historical sites of criminal events.
    I wonder – do Christians realize how close they are to Muslims. All our Prophets are the same (with the exception of Muhammad (SAW). We believe Jesus (PBUH)was a great Prophet and will fulfill the prophecy of returning. There are only 2 major differences between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith – Muhammad (SAW)being the last Prophet and Jesus did not die on the cross – Muslims believe he ascended to Heaven alive – Christians don’t. Jesus (PBUH)indicated his ‘miracle’ when he said he would perform the same miracle as Jonah.

    So, even though there is little difference and vast similarities between Muslims and Christians – Christians still want to align themselves with Judaism – who do not even acknowledge the Messiah! I find that utterly confusing!

    Either way – religion aside. Why does no one speak about the call for another inquest into 9/11? Why are we still brow beating the world with it being an act of Islamic Terrorism? Why can’t the US government not explain why Mossad agents were arrested with a van full of explosive on the George Washington bridge and one being stopped on Route 3 (directly leading to the Lincoln Tunnel) OR why Israeli students were in NY filming the ‘event’ or why when stopped the Israeli’s indicated to the NYPD that they were not their enemy – Palestine was …? Huh? So they had inside information from the Arabs? Cause they are great friends now? or why the crash site of Flight 93 had zero plane parts? Or why building 7 did not fall immediately? Or why Engineers world wide claim that neither tower would have fallen as they did on mere jet fuel alone?

    They do not answer this – as they continue to promote fear of Arabs and fear of Islam. Every citizen has the right to dislike or ‘hate’ extremists but what you do not have the right to is …. to umbrella ALL as a whole! Hamas is not the spokesman for Islam! Al Queda is not the spokesman for Islam. Citizens need to realize that you can not blame a whole for the few!

    • Sameeha,

      I know you believe that Christianity and Islam share much in common insofar as you stated we share the same prophets. But where we differ results in heaven or hell, eternal life or eternal death. Because Jesus was more than a prophet, He was a prophet, a King, and a priest. And more than that He was God come in the flesh.

      John 1:1 (NASB)
      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…And the Word became flesh (who became flesh?) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of teh only begotten from teh Fatehr, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

      Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus who, although existed in the form of God (the form of what?) did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himslf, taking the form of a bondservant and being made in the likeness of a men, and being found in appearance as a man, He humbeld Himself by becoming obedient to the point o fdeath evene death on a cross. (Phil 2:5-8)

      And Sameeha if He is not your personal Lord and Savior then all you have to look forward to is hell.

      John 3:36 (NASB)
      36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

      There is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. There is no other way. He is the only way, the only truth, and the only life, no one comes to heaven except through Him. This isn’t me saying this, this is what He said Himself (John 14:6). If you read it for yourself then ask, “Where is the Father?”

      I pray Sameeha for you and others who believe like you that God would captivate your heart with His grace and His love and that you would come to know Jesus as your Lord and Savior and be reconciled to God through Him.

    • Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

      Depending on the follower of Christ you may or may not align yourself with Judaism. You are misinformed and are lumping people together also. From some of my readings even Martin Luther was anti-Jew. But God used him mightly to reform the people of his day and brought back a truth that was lost. I personally believe that that truth was lost because of a “religious spirit”.

      We are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ atonement on the cross, He was sinless. For God so loved the “world” that He gave us His son. For all have sinned a fall short of the Glory of God. Our roots point us to the cross and that is found in the law and the prophets, the Torah, who is the Christ.

      From my understanding when the Jews went into Babyloinian captivity they picked up hedge laws to protect themselves from ever going back into captivity. That wasn’t what God taught, the hedge laws they added to the law. Thoes were some of the leaders that Jesus confronted in His day. And they were puffed up, they were just men who were puffed up! It is so hard for us men to come to the Father through Christ because we all think were good and can work ourselves into Gods favor. The bible says the cross is foolishness to the unbeliver. What? “I’ll just go out and kill myself and others then God will accept me”, and I will receive great rewards. There is a much easier yet for some reason it is s much harder way for men. I believe that is the fear that we all face! “God I’m not doing enough”, “I’m not being enough, “I’m not good enough!” And Jesus said I love you! I came to die for you! I am the lamb of God! And I will make it right, then you don’t have to work. But then God raised up Paul, faith without works is dead. OK now what, I’m so confused! If Christ is in you there will be works of righteousness. The bible does speak of righteous men but it is His righteousness that puts us back into right standing with Father God.

      I love the Jewish faith for without it I would be lost! Praise God for His word! Thank-you God for my Jewish brothers and sisters, the prophets who laid down their lives. For the Josephs, for the Marys, for Queen Ester, for Abramham for he was a fried of God. They all showed us the way. They all loved God.

      What I see happening today is many Christians crying out for a deeper understanding of their faith our roots, I know I do. Our roots are in Judaism because Jesus was and is a Jewish man. Like it or not.

      The Jewish people are the apple of His eye and He is covenanted to the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). But He also promises that the two, both Jew and Greek will become one new man. And so we honor the Father and say yes and amen to His purposes and His plan.

      The cry of my heart is that Jesus will return to earth and reign forever, because He is a good God. He is a God of redemption, a God of forebearance, a God of love and He wants ALL to know Him, for it we know Him then we know the Father, and come into fellowship with Him.

      The bible teaches we fight not aganist flesh and blood, but aganist powers, aganist principalities, aganist wickedness in high places. We must be a wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.

      There are those who walk on this earth who follow the ways of the wicked one. I believe that thoes young men who crashed into the twin towers believed with all their heart that what they were doing was right and good. They opened themselves up to a spirit and I believe this is what this blog is trying to say. There is a spirt behind Islam and it is not a peaceful one. And what does it say about Satan, that he comes to steal, kill and destroy! We fight not aganist…

      We in the West who have lived in relative peace for so many years do not understand the ways of Islam. That is one of the reason for the “Son of Hamas” book, it is to inform us to make us aware and I do believe God raises up men, to lay down their lives for the truth. But they don’t kill people or lay back in passivity and close their eyes to injustice of others for the truth. And if they do they repent because that is not Gods way and He reveals that to us.

      Jesus said take the beam out of your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly and take the beam out of anothers. Islam calls Americans infidels. Excuse me Islam take the beam out of your own eye. Do I agree with all the laws of this nation, NO! Not all Americans are infidels, vice a versa.

      I do not believe we need to live in fear either but we do not need to be unwise, just because we want to embrace “ALL”, the American way these days or so it seems. For crying out loud we put diapers on our dogs and carry them around in shopping carts how crazy is that! I was told by a vet one day that my dog was a senior citizen! My goodness we need a frontal.

      I believe that Jesus ascended to heaven alive, he was resurrected from the dead and given a new body, an incorruptible body. He preached in hell for three days, and the day He died He took the keys, He took the keys, He’s got the keys! There were witnesses to His ressurection and ascension.

      We walk by faith, if this did not happen then my faith is no faith at all, Paul even said that. But I believe this because He has witnessed to me by His Spirit, He is alive and He is working in the hearts and lives of men.

      I should not fear Arabs, I should not fear Islam, but when you’ve been tramatized your lymbic system kicks in, it is only natural you will fear. We’re just people, but some people have wrong motives the question is do these people who want to build this mega “mosque” have good motives, we should question what this really is about. What is their long term agenda.

      To take over others, is not “the way of Christ”, it is not the way of God. Do these people want to covert others to take them over? God gave each of us a free will. He is not about taking but about giving. He is about working in our lives to have an honest loving relationship with Him, not to be a despot over us.

      He love Israel, He loves the Palistinian people, He loves Arabs, He loves Americans, He loves the Indians, He loves Russians, He even loves the French :). He is God and He is a God of love, mercy and peace.

  26. Love Muslims, preach the Gospel.

  27. Well… US is the country of freedom but NOT other countries where some religions such as Christian or Buddha or Hindu have no ‘free space’ to move. Please google by yourself. My point here is: US has to take its risk finally. US claims themselves as a country for total freedom so it is the risk. US is not Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, RRC or Iran. Sooo…. this is the fact!!!

  28. Ethan K. Islam is not a religion. A belief that forces it’s women to hide themselves so they won’t sexually provoke men is not a religion. A belief that scrapes women’s genitals so they won’t experience a God given joy is not a “religion”. A belief that encourages suicide bombings of each other over it’s own teachings is not a religion. A belief that was started by a founder who raped young boys is not a religion. A belief that stones women for being raped is not a religion. A belief that a father should commit an “honor” killing of his own daughter is not a religion. A belief that believes in world domination by force is not a religion. A belief that allows no other religious freedom but it’s own as in most arab countries is not a religion.
    No, this is a false confusion of random human hate so hideous that it can only be the vision of the most evil mind ever to roam the air of the earth.

  29. The Quran speaks for itself as does the fact that in any Muslim country, “moderate” or extreme, one can be killed/executed for being a Christian or Jew. I would ask Sameeha and Ethan whether or not it would be good if the US converted to Shariah law?
    I think most of us are concerned with good reason and I hope we will not allow the erection of this mosque at the site of our tragic loss to the teachings of the Quran.

    Appreciate for your continued bravery, Joseph. I pray the Lord will continue to bless and keep you. Jesus gave his life for us; may we give our lives daily in love and service to Him.

  30. Allowing this to happen is a slap in the face to all the EMS, Firefighters, Law Enforcement personnel, and other
    rescue workers as well as the victims and their families of the horrendous acts of 9/11.

  31. Ethan, we do not have the luxury of choosing “dirt worshiping” paganism as a solution for the problem of the war between evil and good. Paganism was and is no utopia but a dark religion which espoused human bloodshed and repression of human liberty. Are you a pagan? Then make sure you know what paganism is and was historically. Meanwhile…evil is alive and well and ignorance or avoidance of the truth will cost us all. I quote Paul Eidelberg’s article “Realistic Assessment and Fantasy for the New Year”: “Today Europe, the home of Christianity, is dying of neo-paganism. Having replaced the God of Israel, the creator of life, Europe is succumbing to the Islamic god of death. Is this Europe’s punishment for the death camps of the Holocaust?

    All talk of fostering a moderate Islam is spineless obfuscation of Islam’s essence: necrophilia. Islam’s religious nihilism is more deeply engrained in Muslims than Nazism was engrained in Germans. Mein Kampf is tepid compared to Islam’s turgid hatred of “infidels.” Some 56 states exalt of the Quran, which Winston Churchill called “the Mein Kampf of war.” Germany under Hitler did not use German children as human bombs. And unlike, Ahmadinejad, the sadistic beasts of Nazi Germany did not use thousands of German children to walk through enemy mine fields. The fools in Washington and Jerusalem have learned nothing from the enormity of evil manifested in the Nazi Holocaust; that evil now manifested in Islamic chants: “Death to America!”—“Death to Israel!”

  32. Wake up America!!!
    America is now experiencing the pendulum movement. After 9/11 Muslims in the U.S were under attack, trying to understand and explain what happened. The strict measures taken made people feel guilt. Today any form of Islam criticism is defined as “Islamophobia”.
    Muslims are very sensitive to their believes – so sensitive, if someone drew the figure of Mohammad they are willing to kill him.
    Salman Rushdi fears for his life for years just because of a fiction book he wrote – this is the way Muslims translate the phrase “freedom of speech”.
    The project in Ground Zero ment to stick a finger in the eye of America. This was why this particular site was chosen by Al-Kaida” in the first place, and this is why it was chosen again now.
    A terrorist was sent to Chicago on Christmas eve not as a word of honor – but as a word of humiliation and dishonor. Mosab suggested to build a hospital with the money – I suggest to build an educational center where young Muslims will be able to study about freedom, human rights, the freedom of speech and the constitution. I saw how youngsters where recruited in the mosque to commit a suicide attack. Wake up America and stop this project!!!!

  33. Let’s systematically go point by point (so as there is no confusion)

    Gordy:

    You are correct when you say Islam is not a religion – it is in fact a way of life (DEEN). But unfortunately, Gordy, this is the only thing you are correct in. Let’s look at your statements…

    “A belief that forces it’s women to hide themselves so they won’t sexually provoke men is not a religion”. Women are not forced to dress pious – it is a choice. Muslim women are not forced to wear the niqab – yet when given a option – more ME women prefer the niqab. Secondly, I question why a Catholic Nun is able to dress pious as a representation of her faith and is not considered ‘oppressed’ – yet a Muslim woman dresses pious and suddenly everyone yells this? Funny I think

    “A belief that scrapes women’s genitals so they won’t experience a God given joy is not a “religion”.” I am not sure where you got this information but it is entirely incorrect. This practice is actually a ‘cultural’ practice and is not part of Islam. The traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam. Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practiced.

    “A belief that encourages suicide bombings of each other over it’s own teachings is not a religion. A belief that was started by a founder who raped young boys is not a religion.” I believe by the word ‘suicide bombings’ you are referring to the misuse of the word ‘jihad’. Islamic-ally speaking – ‘jihad’ means something entirely different than what you are implying. NOWHERE DOES ISLAM ENJOIN THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS.. The Qur’an says:
    “Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not
    transgress limits. God does not love transgressors.” (Qur’an 2:190)”If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things.” (Qur’an 8:61) War,therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term ‘jihad’ literally means ‘struggle’. ‘Jihad’ is the inner struggle of the soul which everyone wages against egotistic desires for the sake of attaining inner peace. As far as you saying the founder ‘raped’ young boys – this is an absolute lie! I have heard many things by people who argue about the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) but have never heard this. I would dare you to show proof!

    “A belief that stones women for being raped is not a religion. A belief that a father should commit an “honor” killing of his own daughter is not a religion.” The Qur’an is very explicit when it speaks about ‘stoning’ and again you misrepresent SINCE it applies to both men and women who commit murder or adultery. In terms of the ‘burying’ of children – again this is a cultural event that happened quite frequently in Africa and it predates Islam or Christianity. Be factual.

    “A belief that believes in world domination by force is not a religion. A belief that allows no other religious freedom but it’s own as in most arab countries is not a religion” Islam does not seek world domination – this statement is almost laughable! Considering that any ‘war’ that involved Islam – all religions were welcome to remain in the land and to practice their religion safely! If Islam does not want any other religion – why then for thousands of years did Muslims, Christians and Jews live in Jerusalem? Christians had their churches and Jews had synagogues. Again this is utter fabrication. AND considering in the last century the only entity that has attempted world domination has been the USA … and I don’t think they are Muslim, are they?

    I’m done with you Gordy!

    Khallasna

    Do you have knowledge of what the Qur’an actually says in regards to ‘infidels’? And to compare Islam to necrophilia shows how unintelligent you are – but thankfully that can be changed :0)

    So if by your standards – anyone using ‘children’ for any abhorrent reason – should be considered evil?

    Ok – since you brought up Israel (thank you by the way). Why would such a self professed Democracy allow Palestinian children to be used as ‘human shields’? (two soldiers are being prosecuted for using a Palestinian boy as a human shield http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/06/israel-settlements-cover_n_635907.html)

    Why would a professed Democracy allow cold blooded killings (In a statement Tuesday, the military said its chief prosecutor would indict an infantry sergeant for manslaughter in connection with an incident in which two Palestinian women – a mother and daughter – were killed while reportedly holding white flags)?
    Why would a professed Democracy by world standards allow “Utter Human Atrocities’ (Amnesty International & UN)- to continue on a daily basis?

    Why would a professed Democracy close ALL Palestinian schools? Palestinian children are virtual prisoners in their homes, due to Israeli imposed curfews and closures. Over 30 Palestinian schools have been closed, and three have been transformed into Israeli military installations, effectively depriving Palestinian children of their right to education. Approximately 13,000 Palestinian students and 500 teachers are unable to reach school because of the closure imposed on Palestinian areas.

    Why would a professed Democracy allow the murder of children? Israel’s shoot-to-kill policy is an illusion of restraint. What restraint did Israel show to stop a settler from spraying 18 month-old Sara’s father’s car with bullets and killing her? What restraint did the Israeli soldier who was posted in a watchtower at Rachel’s Tomb to prevent his finger from touching the trigger of his M16 shooting 14-year old Mo’ayyad Osaama al-Jowareesh at close range in the head with a rubber coated steel bullet, as Mo’ayyad walked beneath the tower on his way to school? On 2 March 2001, Israeli occupation forces shot dead a nine-year-old boy in the West Bank town of El-Bireh after opening fire on a group of children playing with cap guns beneath his family’s apartment. Ubey Darraj was dead on arrival in hospital after being hit in the chest by a bullet from a heavy caliber machine-gun. Shortly afterwards, a 13-year-old Palestinian boy, Mohammed Mahmoud Hellis, shot on February 27, had died. He had been hit in the head with a live round while walking home from school near the Karni crossing point in the Gaza Strip.

    Why would a professed Democracy systematically try to eradicate a people based solely on the fact that they are NON-Jewish? Wait ….. I thought only Islam had that mentality? AND through all this Israel ‘terrorism’ is not only backed by the USA Government – it finances it! Didn’t the Holocaust teach the world anything?

    Wow truly if these are your standards of the ‘true religion’ no thank you! And you wonder why Muslims are upset? As I stated once before “Every citizen has the right to dislike or ‘hate’ extremists but what you do not have the right to is …… to umbrella ALL as a whole! Hamas is not the spokesman for Islam! Al Queda is not the spokesman for Islam. Citizens need to realize that you can not blame a whole for the few!” AND if you can ….. by this standard – if ALL are able to Umbrella a “whole” – this would mean ALL American citizens by definition agree with and support the killing of innocent men, women and children world-wide?

  34. I don’t want to imply that the quote I used is my own. I was quoting Paul Eidelberg from “Today Europe” to the end of my comment. “Necrophilia” is an ugly word and I wouldn’t have used it, but I agree with the point he is making. I agree with Gonen: Wake up!

  35. You have many thoughts, Sameeha, but you didn’t address my concerns about the evil of Islam.

    Should Christianity (or any other religion) be illegal in Muslim countries?

    Should Christians and other infidels have to worry about being arrested/imprisoned/killed for their denial of “Allah”, as they do in Islamic states?

    There are good reasons why we don’t want Islamic “faith” taking over the United States, a free country where people of all beliefs can come and worship as they choose, as long as they do so in PEACE.

    Your over-simplified view of the tragic realities is a real problem.

  36. This is completely outrageous.
    I have made a call to the NYC zoning/planning commission and have donated to a legal effort in the fight against this. Hopefully, we will all make our voices heard.

  37. One more thought —
    This shows what they’re really all about…

  38. You know… as much as I object to a mosque at Ground Zero, I get the feeling that if it does get built it might not be the smartest PR move for its builders. It’s broadcasting “haha, we won, losers”. Sure, Muslims around the world will pat themselves on the back, but maybe it might wake people up as well.

  39. Ms Taylor,

    I believe your statement said it all “United States, a free country where people of all beliefs can come and worship as they choose, as long as they do so in PEACE.” Are you implying that the majority of the almost 7 million Muslims in the United States are not peaceful? Are you implying that those who would visit this Mosque would be ‘chuckling inside thinking they got one up on you?’. Do you honestly believe that Muslims world wide unilaterally commend the terroristic acts of Al Queda? If you do – then you are sadly mistaken and very prejudiced!

    And not that your going to really believe me (since the truth is so very hard to swallow) but let’s take a look at history shall we? So many people say how Muslim countries oppress the women – yes, yes they do! But do you know WHY? If you are from the US – do you REALLY TRULY know what your government has done since 1945? The US Government has had its hand in almost ALL wars, military coups and the oppression of the people! Placing their ‘own’ (via training at Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation) into power!
    Let’s see – here is a revised list of SOME countries that the US has directly or indirectly over-thrown the government, manipulated elections and attacked popular movements – all since 1945.
    Afghanistan, Albania,Angola,Brazil,Bolivia
    British Guyana,Bulgaria,Cambodia,Chile
    China,Congo,Costa Rica,Cuba,Dominican Republic
    Ecuador,El Salvador,Ghana,Greece,Grenada
    Guatemala,Haiti,Indonesia,Iran,Iraq,Italy,Jamaica
    Korea,Laos,Lebanon,Lybia,Morocco,Nicaragua,Panama
    Peru,Philippines,Uruguay,Seychelles,Somalia,Surinam,Syria
    Yugoslavia,Zaire

    Your over-simplified view of the tragic realities is a real problem. I will give you prime examples of a true TERRORIST regime – all in the name of ‘Democracy’. The true war on ‘Terror’ is against the Islamic world (if they don’t behave)

    Afghanistan (99.7% Muslim) Everyone knows
    of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan,
    carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the
    Taliban. But how many people know that during the late
    1970s and most of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a government
    committed to bringing the incredibly backward nation into
    the 20th century, including giving women equal rights?
    What happened, however, is that the United States poured
    billions of dollars into waging a terrible war against this
    government, simply because it was supported by the
    Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly
    increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which
    is what occurred. In the end, the United States won, and the
    women, and the rest of Afghanistan, lost – more than a million
    dead, three million disabled, five million refugees, in total about half the population.

    Indonesia (86% Muslim) The day before Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor, Kissinger meets with Suharto and approves of the invasion (this fact was denied by the US government until documents confirming it were declassified in 2001).
    Indonesia receives over $2 billion in financing and credits from governments in America, Europe and Japan to meet the Pertamina crisis. United Nations Security Council condemns Indonesia’s presence in East Timor. Government backed by US

    Iran (99% MuslIM) Prime Minister Mossadegh was overthrown in a joint U.S./British operation. Mossadegh had been elected to his position by a large majority of parliament, but he had made the fateful mistake of spearheading the movement to nationalize a British-owned oil company, the sole oil company operating in Iran. The coup restored the Shah to absolute power and began a period of 25 years of repression and torture, with the oil industry being restored to foreign ownership, as follows: Britain and the U.S., each 40 percent, other nations 20 percent.
    Current Iranian government refuses to ‘follow’ US Policy – therefore is now listed as a ‘threat’.

    Iraq (99% Muslim) To the consternation of Islamic
    conservatives, Saddam’s government gave women added
    freedoms and offered them high-level government and
    industry jobs. Saddam also created a Western-style
    legal system, making Iraq the only country in the
    Persian Gulf region not ruled according to traditional
    Islamic law (Sharia). Saddam abolished the Sharia courts,
    except for personal injury claims. When Iraq invaded Kuwait,
    U.S. President George H. W. Bush responded cautiously for
    the first several days. On one hand, Kuwait, prior to this
    point, had been a virulent enemy of Israel and was the
    Persian Gulf monarchy that had had the most friendly
    relations with the Soviets. Invasion was imminent. After 9/11 –
    President George W. Bush spoke of an “axis of evil” consisting of
    Iran, North Korea, and Iraq. Furthermore, since Saddam posed a threat to Americans interest in the Oil fields – the US needed to ensure this area remained aligned within the “US parameters”. So the world was fed a blatant lie “Iraq has WMD” – which of course was never found yet thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians died.

    Lebanon (59% Muslim) June 1982 invasion of Lebanon targeted at the Palestinians and their leftist Lebanese allies. Despite tens of thousands of civilian casualties from the Israeli onslaught, the United States blocked efforts by the United Nations
    to force an Israeli withdrawal or even a cease fire. The United States brokered an agreement that September which led to a withdrawal of Palestinian forces from the country and the appointment of a new Lebanese government led by the neo-fascist Phalangist Party, representing part of the country’s Maronite Christian community.

    Lybia (96% Muslim) Libya refused to be a proper Middle East client state of Washington. Its leader, Muammar el-Qaddafi, was uppity. He would have to be punished. U.S. planes shot down two
    Libyan planes in what Libya regarded as its air space.
    The US also dropped bombs on the country, killing at least 40 people, including Qaddafi’s daughter. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to overthrow him, a major disinformation campaign, economic sanctions, and blaming Libya for being behind the Pan Am 103
    bombing without any good evidence.

    Morocco (99% Muslim) Morocco has received more than one-fifth of all US aid to the continent, totaling more than $1 billion in military assistance and $1.3 billion in economic aid. In return, Morocco has remained one of Washington’s closest strategic allies in either Africa or the Arab world. Meanwhile, the US has been largely silent about the Moroccan government’s ongoing human rights abuses against its own people, and Washington has prodded
    Morocco to pursue questionable neo-liberal economic policies. With the demise of the anticommunist rationale for the cold war, Morocco is now being touted as a bulwark against Islamic extremism and as a model for U.S.-backed economic reforms.

    Somalia (100% Muslim) Washington has been the main source of Western aid for the transitional government since it came to power three years ago and has pumped millions of dollars into the Somali military for weapons and soldiers’ salaries.
    Last year alone, the US government provided Somalia with some 40 tonnes of arms and ammunition. There were also reports that the US had backed Ethiopia with military and logistical aid in its
    2006 invasion of Somalia aimed at eradicating the Islamist threat.

    Syria (92% Muslim) In 1949, The British, French and US back a successful coup by Brigadier General Husni al Zaim.
    One of the first acts of the new regime is to approve the building of a US owned oil pipeline, which the previous government had not approved. Syria is one of the many countries to accept US bribes to not oppose a war against Iraq. The US imposes economic sanctions on Syria over what it calls its support for terrorism and failure to stop militants entering Iraq.February 2006 – The US allocates $5 million to finance the Syrian opposition.

    NOW this one I could go on and on and on …. but I won’t:
    Palestine (99% Muslim) ALL Governments of Israel backed by US.
    June 2006 – Israel signs a bilateral agreement with the US
    whereby both signatories pledge not to hand over to the ICC nationals accused of crimes against humanity. The US establishes its “roadmap” for peace. As usual the Palestinians are required to immediately cease resistance to the Israeli occupation, but only minor demands are made of Israel. Israel is allowed to
    continue settlement activity until some unspecified time. The US subsidy to Israel is made dependent only on the introduction of economic reforms that “will slash public sector jobs and wages and lower taxes”.
    Over 99% of Gaza children are suffering trauma due to Israeli attacks. In the past four years 621 children have been killed by the Israelis. A quarter of children under five are acutely or chronically malnourished. All this and more is made possible by US support. Israeli forces enter Gaza after first destroying three bridges and a power station, leaving much of the strip without electricity. The US provides political support.
    Hezbollah guerrillas seize two Israeli soldiers and Israel invades Lebanon, launching a huge air and ground offensive. The media are soon claiming that Hezbollah crossed into Israel to capture the soldiers, but early reports say they were captured during clashes on the border. It is also shown that
    Israel had planned the attack on Lebanon in 2004, with the approval of the US. Later testimony by the Israeli president shows that the plan for war with Lebanon was indeed made far in advance. Israel attacks indiscriminately, including attacking a UN camp and ICRC ambulances and uses illegal weapons, while the West does nothing. The UN security Council even rejects a call for a cease fire. Israel is later accused of war crimes for targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
    The US and UK oppose a ceasefire while supplying arms to Israel to continue the war.
    August 2006 – The US and UK help restock Israel’s weapons
    October 2006 – The US trains Fatah forces to fight against those of Hamas
    November 2006 – The US vetoes a UN security Council resolution condemning Israeli actions in Gaza. The UK government is
    more concerned about damage done to a first world war cemetery near Beit Hanoun
    March 2007 – The US and EU refuse to recognize a new Palestinian unity government. They demand that the Palestinian government
    renounce violence, recognize Israel and accept past peace agreements, but make no corresponding demands of Israel
    FAST FORWARD
    March 2010 – The US gives more arms to Israel, worth about $250 million
    May 2010 – The US funds roads for Israelis only.
    June 2010 – The US blocks UN Security Council criticism of the Israeli attack on the aid flotilla, insisting the activists should be criticized for trying to defend themselves!
    Israel refuses to allow an international inquiry into its attack on the aid flotilla. It will hold its own inquiry. The US approves.

    US Backed Governments

    Pakistan (96% Muslim) In 1979, when General Mohammod Zia Ul-Haq
    executed his elected predecessor, Zulfigar Ali Bhutto, and declared martial law, drugs were unknown in Pakistan, but by 1984 Pakistan was furnishing 70% of the world’s high grade heroin. That same year, George Bush addressed a group of Pakistani officials and praised the government of President Zia
    for its anti-narcotics program.Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger called Pakistan a “frontline state” defending “free people everywhere’. That may explain why despite its unsavory record of jailing and torturing dissidents, Pakistan under Zia was the largest recipient of US. aid, receiving over $3 billion
    in 1982, of which over half was for weapons.

    Saudi Arabia (97% Muslim) Fahd bin’Abdul-‘Aziz. The main opposition is from Sunni Islamists, and hundreds are in prison. Saudi Arabia is supported by the United States and other
    western democracies because of the enormous oil wealth that lies below the country’s desert sands, its pro-West stance, and the royal family’s staunch anti-fundamentalist position.

    Turkey (98) Ozal, Turgut – despite its human rights abuses, Turkey can do no wrong in US eyes, for it is one of the CIA’s key listening posts on the Soviet border. Not surprisingly, in 1987,
    Turkey was the third largest recipient of U.S. aid.

    So I think as you can see Ms. Taylor – the whole of Islam can see the true war! As I said previously when I mentioned Palestine – just that topic alone I could give HUNDREDS of examples of the true “Terrorist” and it wouldn’t be the general Muslim population. And I think YOUR over-simplified view of the tragic realities is the real problem. You my friend have bought the lie – hook, line and sinker! You embrace the systematic attempt to ‘exterminate’ peoples based on fabrications fed to the mass population by the US Government. TRUE Islam is not the enemy! But if you took the time to ACTUALLY know a Muslim you would see that but live your life comfortably knowing that your government is doing what it does best – killing, raping, pillaging the weak and basically ensuring that NO ONE goes against them! I’m glad you think all the US soldiers dying in this fight – are doing it for “The land of the Free” (psst your not free and neither are the countries the US is liberating!)

    And truly – where is Osama Bin Laden? Who did he work for? Who backed him? Well I can answer 2 of these questions – he worked for the US and he was financially backed by the US. Hmmmm maybe he’s hiding in the US?

    • And here we have it…the beginning…why thoes young men bombed the twin towers. Your rage is felt.

  40. Can a discussion be held without whose god is the true one and whose is not. Seriously, many of you miss the meaning of christianity and chirst-like OPEN MINDEDNESS. And please get over your misguided religious puritanism. NO ONE’S religion is better than anyone’s. Get over yourself.

  41. Sameeha G. You are obviously a very intelligent and passionate person and you hold strong beliefs. You indicated I know nothing about Islam and Muslim history and way of life. If you’d like I could cite references to all of those statements I made that you challenged. I got those from Muslims themselves. There are many books I’ve read by muslims that present a view much darker than the one you present. “The Trouble With Islam” by Irshad Manji, (a Muslim) ; “Now They Call Me Infidel” by Nonie Darwish (A Muslim Shahid’s Daughter); “Inside The Kingdom” by Carmen Bin Ladin. And of course Mosab’s story. There are many many more books I’ve read by muslims that tell similar stories. I can give you those if you’d like. I wish you the best. May God bless you.

  42. I’d like to suggest everyone read “The Crescent Through the Eyes of the Cross” by Christian Arab Nabeel Jabbour. It’s a wonderful book and teaches us how we can better understand Muslims without demonizing them the way many Americans tend to do. We need to remember if we follow Jesus that we are called to love our enemies. I don’t think most of us need any more fuel for learning how to hate Muslims.

  43. Gordy ……

    Nowhere in my response to you … did I say “You know nothing about Islam and Muslim history and way of life”. You could list 100 books to me about the ‘evil’ (by those who left) of Islam and to that I could list 1000 books by those who converted (AFTER 9/11 by the way) and I’m sure you already know of the most notable famous converts. So are these people converting because they are forced? Is there a ‘radical’ Muslim standing before them holding a sword yelling “Convert or die?” No …. so by this the converts are 1 of 2 things – extremely intelligent or extremely ignorant.
    It is amazing how the average American or Brit would defend all acts against terrorism – yet can not comprehend their own actions within them. This last century along the US and Britain has orchestrated the rise of the most notable sadistic regimes – notably in the Islamic countries. Then these same Democratic governments yell from the roof-tops “We must step in and help these poor oppressed people.”
    Fundamentally speaking I think what is getting lost here is the difference between Religion and Extremist. Every religion throughout history has a very bad ‘track record’ with factions within it that commit horrific crimes against humanity all in the name of God.
    Islam is the fasting growing way of life on this planet – and all those against it feel threatened. Again, its funny because anyone who believes in God – should be living as a true Muslim (submitting to the will of God). It is not my place to advise you of your religious status or anyone else(s) but neither is it your right to condemn ALL who don’t share your belief – merely for theirs.

    I was raised within the Christian belief and for many years supported Israel – yet with wisdom and knowledge comes change! God did bless me Mash Allah! The veil before my eyes was lifted! I do not agree with any form of terror – yet one can not blame it solely on the Muslims. I have indicated (and it is all well documented) how systematically the US, Britain and Israel has waged their own form of terrorism against the World – yet I don’t see you or any other person on this forum talking about it. The land of the Free – an over-used slogan that no longer fits the definition of the United States of America. Your freedom has been sold at a very high price ….. Morality!

  44. Sameeha,

    I think you are confusing US foreign policy with religious persecution or using failed US foreign policy to justify religious persecution of Christians by Muslims. They are separate issues.

    You put forth many debatable arguments in the area of US foreign policy which I agree has its problems, but isn’t the biggest reason (overseas) Muslims hate the US is due to our belief that Israel has the right to exist?

    It is a fact that Christians outside the US are persecuted, often mercilessly and LEGALLY, around the globe for even setting foot on “Islamic” land. Muslims, who convert to Christianity live in fear for their lives. This is not defensible.

    You have not addressed the injustices that exist in Sharia law, and would exist regardless of US foreign policy actions and are choosing to ignore this for some reason. Do you think Muslim law is correct in their treatment of those who choose not to believe in “Allah”?

    Please answer these questions.

    Respectfully,
    Elizabeth Taylor

  45. The US does not engage is religious persecution – that is a fact.

    I do agree with you that in some ways the US has turned its back on God and lost its morality and is also responsible for injustice around the world in the name of “empire-building”.

    The US does not equal Christianity.

  46. Shameeha G, You say you were raised within the Christian belief but with wisdom and knowledge came change. What was the knowledge and wisdom you gained that turned you away from Jesus as the messiah? You obviously reject his claim that: “I am the way, the truth and the life.” What changed your thinking, or did you ever believe him?

  47. Ms Taylor,

    You said “The US does not engage is religious persecution – that is a fact.” Is it a fact? Where’s the proof?

    America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity.
    All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian. This includes the first, Harvard, where the student handbook listed this as Rule #1: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.”

    “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.” – Patrick Henry

    “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” – U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, John Jay

    Ask most Americans if the “separation of church and state” is in your Constitution, and they will answer yes. You can scour the Constitution of the United States, and you will NOT find the phrase, “separation of church and state” or anything close to it.

    History of America and religion (yes it goes way back)

    July 01, 1656 -The first Quakers (Mary Fisher and Ann Austin) to arrive in Boston are arrested. Five weeks later they were deported back to England.
    August 05, 1656 -Eight Quakers arrived in Boston. They were immediately imprisoned by the Puritan authorities because Quakers were generally regarded as politically and religiously subversive.
    May 11, 1682 -After two years, two key laws were repealed by the General Court of Massachusetts: one which prohibited people from observing Christmas and another that set capital punishment for Quakers who returned to the colony after being banished.
    February 29, 1692 -The Salem Witch Trials began when Tituba, the female slave of the Reverend Samuel Parris, Sarah Goode, and Sarah Osborne were all arrested and accused of witchcraft.
    December 25, 1789 -During the first Christmas under America’s new Constitution, the Congress was in session. This fact may seem odd today, but at the time Christmas was not a major Christian holiday. As a matter of fact, Christmas had a bad reputation among many Christians as a time of un-Christian excess and partying. Between 1659 and 1681, celebrating Christmas was actually illegal in Boston and anti-Christmas sentiment in the North prevented the day from becoming a national holiday until 1870.
    March 24, 1832 -Mormon leader Joseph Smith was beaten, tarred and feathered in Ohio.
    June 06, 1838 -Mormons beat non-Mormons with clubs during elections in the small Missouri town of Gallatin. Several non-Mormons were seriously injured.
    October 30, 1838 -Outraged over Mormon attacks on the state militia, members of the militia attacked Haun’s Mill, a community of Mormon refugees. Eighteen men and boys were shot dead.
    June 26, 1858 -The United States army entered Salt Lake City in order to restore peace and install Alfred Cumming (a non-Mormon) as governor. Mormon residents had opposed the replacement of Brigham Young, who had declared martial law and forbade U.S. troops from entering Utah.
    March 22, 1882 -Polygamy was outlawed by Congress, specifically targeting the practices of the Mormon church.
    May 07, 1925 -John Scopes was arrested for teaching evolution in his Dayton, Tennessee, high school biology class.
    May 13, 1925 -Florida passed a law requiring daily Bible readings in all public schools.
    November 26, 1956 -Ellery Schempp, protesting the mandatory reading of passages from the Bible in his public school homeroom, decided to read passages from the Koran instead of the Bible; that earned him a trip to the principal’s office. (this one is cute)
    February 08, 1964 -Congress debated an amendment to the Civil Rights Act of 1963 which would have removed the protection of prohibitions against religious discrimination from atheists. Proposed by Ohio Republican John Ashbrook, the amendment read: “…it shall not be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to refuse to hire and employ any person because of said persons’ atheistic practices and beliefs.” The amendment was passed by the House of Representatives, 137-98, but it failed to pass the Senate.
    November 30, 1987 -Argued: Lyng v. Northwest Indian CPA
    By a 5-3 vote the Supreme Court would allow a road to be built through sacred Indian lands. The Court did acknowledge that the road would in fact be devastating to their religious practice, but simply found this to be regrettable.
    February 28, 1993 -The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) along with the FBI and other federal agents staged a raid the Branch Davidian compound at Waco, Texas.
    April 19, 1993 -A new ATF assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, lead to a fire which killed 72-86 people, including Davidian leader David Koresh.

    Presidential speeches:
    Roosevelt speach WWII ends with “So help us God”
    George H. Bush “May God bless each and every one of them, and the coalition forces at our side in the Gulf, and may He continue to bless our nation, the United States of America.”

    At the end of stating the Presidential Oath – you will hear “So help me God”.

    SO as you can see – I give historical data (and lots of it) and yet all I get from this is “The US does not engage is religious persecution – that is a fact.” AND “The US does not equal Christianity” <————- THIS is the most important thing you said, do you know why? BECAUSE as I've said in almost ALL of my posts "“Every citizen has the right to dislike or ‘hate’ extremists but what you do not have the right to is …… to umbrella ALL as a whole! Hamas is not the spokesman for Islam! Al Queda is not the spokesman for Islam. Citizens need to realize that you can not blame a whole for the few!” What you fail to realize is that the US was in fact built upon Christian morals and this continues today. BUT you don't want anyone to confuse the two? That's kinda hypocritical isn't it? Why are you confusing Islam and Hamas?

    • Man how would you like to watch a video about all that, might change your mind about America. Fact, fact, fact, fact, fact.

  48. I am well aware of failures of the US political establishment and the grievances which you cite.

    The governments of the Islamic states are theocratic in nature, so the religion IS the government; not so in the United States.
    Yes, Christianity influenced laws and governing principles (for the better), but the govt cannot “establish” a religion (as it does is Muslim countries). Once again, I agree that this country has not been faultless through the generations, but generally speaking, it was/is still a place where religious freedom is protected. Do you not see the difference?

    You still have provided an answer as to whether or not it is right for Islamic states to impose the death penalty on Muslims who convert to Christianity. Can you please answer this very simple question?

  49. Gordy,

    You said to me “There are many many more books I’ve read by muslims that tell similar stories.” Yet in your last response you ask me “You obviously reject his claim that: “I am the way, the truth and the life.” What changed your thinking, or did you ever believe him?”

    If you truly understood Islam and read books about Muslims – you would have read that you HAVE to believe in Jesus (PBUH). He is one of the greatest Prophets within the Qur’an and he is mentioned far more than the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

    Of course I believe in Jesus – but I do not believe he died for our sins. I believe he is the “Messiah”. And I believe he will come again!

    In Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ 3 “And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times? 4 “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.
    Do you know what the miracle of Jonah is?

    In John 14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; [1] believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? [2] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.” [3] 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. [4] From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

    Thomas could not figure out where Jesus was going – Thomas thought he was speaking about a ‘place’ around them. Jesus was validating to them that they needed to live as he lived, believe as he believed and by doing this THEY would enter Heaven! Jesus also says that he would return for them!

    That is the problem with so many people who quote a ‘line’ or a verse and leave out what is before and what is after! Jesus never professed that in order to get to Heaven you could ONLY get their through him – other than living and doing as he did!

    I find it hard to believe that you read about Islam because the question of belief in Jesus would not come up. Side note Gordy – do not bring up the debate about Jesus being God! As you can see – I am well aware of the Holy Bible (all 16+ versions)but this debate is about a Mosque and all those opposing it labeling peaceful Muslims because of a “Extremists groups” which are not the voice of Islam!

  50. Ms Taylor,

    Despite the fact that it is apparent that nothing I say could make you even ‘look’ at this topic slightly different – let’s me know that debating is useless. You will not learn from anything that I say because you want to believe what you want to believe. Your belief in the ‘system’ lets you sleep at night thinking you have done good for the betterment of the masses.

    The Qur’an in itself is perfect! This can not be argued! Democracy in itself is perfect! This too can not be argued – BUT it is in whoever is doing the translating and implementing – this is where the imperfections creep in. Do you realize the WORST place for these occurrences (Converts being killed) is in your Governments favorite Arab Country – Saudi Arabia. Do you know why? Its not because it is ruling by Islamic law – it rules via the belief of Wahhabi. Look that up!

    It is well documented that Catholic Priests have molested boys through at least the last 2 centuries. It is well documented that the Vatican has systematically covered it up! OK by YOUR standards ………. ALL non-Catholics should be able to look at Catholics as pedophiles? No? Why not? They are YOUR priests …. it is YOUR Pope?? Do you understand that logic? How many times do I have to say “YOU CAN NOT JUDGE A WHOLE BY THE FEW”.

  51. Sameeha,

    Actually, I do sleep in peace every night because Jesus has forgiven my sins :-)

    Most (All?) Islamic countries, not just Saudi Arabia, have “death to converts” written into their laws, according to Qu’ranic interpretation. It is not something obscure or unenforced. I asked you, “Is it right?” Still – no answer. In this way, I am judging the “whole”, by the “whole”, not the “few”

    But I will give you a straight answer on your Cathloic priest question: NO, it is absolutely not right for Catholic priests to molest young boys. In my opinion, they should lock ‘em up and throw away the key!! It is not OK by my standards and frankly, I think it is a problem because they are not allowed to get married per Catholic religious tradition (not the Holy Bible).

    I wish the best for you Sameeha and that the truth of Christ will bless you and keep you safe.

    • Ms. Elizabeth,

      I agree with what you’ve said. And it’s very frustrating when you ask specific questions, you don’t get an answer. I too have had that problem on MulimMatters.org. If I even mention the hate Muslims have for Jews, I get slammed & told that I’ve been reading propaganda on Israeli sites. Or I’m watching Israeli videos (which I can’t do since I have dial-up). It seems to me that the Muslims I’ve asked about Islam or Sharia Law defend it like it’s all ONE. That the religion is not separate from the laws. Our religions in the U.S. aren’t per say governed by our laws. We believe as we see fit in our religion & we obey our state laws. To me they are two separate things.

      I was raised Catholic. I only knew our Bible in latin. Even when I tried reading the Bible in English, I could not understand the old English. The newer Bibles written in simple English make it far more understandable. And I so agree with you about Priests being put in prison for abusing young children. This is the only religion I know of that does not allow priests or nuns to marry. Most of our other religions with different names (all Christian) have Pastors or Ministers & are all allowed to be married & raise a family. My cousin is a Minister in Kansas. I’m no longer Catholic & haven’t been for many years. I believe in God Almighty & Jesus Christ. That will never end in my life.

      I cannot discern the difference between Muslims & Islam. It’s like they are one & the same. I don’t believe that most Muslims completely understand the Koran & all of it’s teachings. There are many schools of Islam as there are different Christian religions. To my knowledge, none of our Christian churches preach or teach anyone to kill all others who do not believe as we do. This may have happened in past history, but I hope we have learned from our mistakes.

      I know we have groups that are supposedly Christian like the KKK or white supremacist & they teach their children the love of God. Regretfully they also teach them to hate people of color. Most Americans do not condone these actions.

      From what I’ve read about Muslim men in most Muslim countries, they might spend a few hours in jail or even a day or so for rape. It seems it’s always the women’s fault that she was raped. Most or all of Muslim women can’t read or write. They have no choice for nearly anything in their lives. If anyone believes that a women would choose to wear a garment that covered their face & skewed their vision so badly that it damages their eyesight, they are sadly mistaken. If Muslim women didn’t fear their own safety, they would change a great deal in their country.

      I see that you are trying to get answers & understand how Muslims think in terms of their religion & Islamic law. I think you’re beating a dead horse. You’ll get a lot of static, quotes of all our wrong doings, protests of how we think of Muslims, yet little insight & no answers. But, if you want to pursue the questions & waste your time, feel free to do so. I’ll read on to see if anyone might actually answer your questions.

      God Bless & keep you safe
      God Bless America

  52. By the way – What are the conviction stats on male citizens of Islamic countries who have raped young girls or boys in the last couple of centuries?

  53. @Sameeha

    I really shouldn’t get into this argument, but I have to agree that the Qur’an does mandate violence, and encourages rather nasty opinions of unbelievers. The interpretation that Jihad is an inner struggle is just that, an interpretation. And to be frank, I don’t know how comparing a religion to a government is even relevant. Do you judge my culture based on what Putin says or does in Russia? What do his decisions have to do with society in the US?

    As for the Qur’an, Jews and Christians are “people of the book,” but Muslims are also told that all Jews will need to be killed by Muslims. So, which verse abrogated the other? Or should I throw in the other half dozen confusing passages just to really muddle it up?

    The problem you get is that the Qur’an says both, therefore a person can justify anything he wants to say. Jews are to be respected and protected, or Jews are to be eradicated. Both are fully supported by the Qur’an. Which one is the final say? If it’s the word of God, why is there any confusion in the first place?

  54. Sameeha G

    Jesus answered the Jonah miracle in Matthew 12:38-39….”For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.” The importance of the message Jonah brought to Ninevah was that even the most wicked will be saved if they truly repent of their sins and turn to God. (Which they did AFTER Jonah was put into the fish for three days by God)
    It’s clear in the Jonah story that the repentance of their sins is what saved them in that old testament story.
    Jesus was stating a prophesy about himself that would open THE way for people to have their sins forgiven.
    As you point out, Jesus said: “No one comes to the Father but through me” Jn 14:6 But then you say he is NOT the ONLY way. Jesus seems very clear to me. In other scriptures, Jesus says HE will be our judge. If he didn’t die to save us, why did God require it?
    I’m unclear about your point. Do you not believe he actually died on the cross, or do you not believe he died to save us from our sins?

    This DOES have much to do with a mosque at the 9/11 site. You say extremists are not the voice of Islam. If every Imam in every mosque and country in the world teaches his own brand of Islam, who IS the one who speaks for Islam? That’s a big problem as I see it….and “peaceful” Muslims seem to have no answer for it.

  55. Currently Ms Taylor the US holds the title for most rapes at the moment:
    # 1 United States: 95,136
    # 2 South Africa: 52,425
    # 3 Canada: 24,350

    JW,

    Clearly the Qur’an by anyone non-believing is full of contradictions. Yet the Bible remains truthful? There are no stories or mass murders or laws within the Bible? The Bible does not contradict itself?

    The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God’s apparent “irrationality” by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

    There are so many contradictions within the Bible – maybe you could help me out and explain them to me? (We’ll stick to 3 per ok?)

    1. God is satisfied with his works
    Gen 1:31
    God is dissatisfied with his works.
    Gen 6:6
    2. God dwells in chosen temples
    2 Chron 7:12,16
    God dwells not in temples
    Acts 7:48
    3. God dwells in light
    Tim 6:16
    God dwells in darkness
    1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

    Morality in the Bible

    1. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God’s ministers
    and punish evil doers only
    Rom 13:1-3,6
    It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
    good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
    Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
    Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

    2. Slavery and oppression ordained
    Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
    Slavery and oppression forbidden
    Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

    3. Killing commanded
    Ex 32:27
    Killing forbidden
    Ex 20:13

    The Crucifixion

    1. Christ was crucified at the third hour
    Mark 15:25
    Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
    John 19:14,15
    2. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
    Jerusalem
    Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
    Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
    Matt 28:16,17

    3. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
    Acts 1:9,12
    Christ ascended from Bethany
    Luke 24:50,51

    Thou shalt not kill
    – Exodus 20:13
    Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
    side… and slay every man his brother…
    – Exodus 32:27

    Death for Adultery – Leviticus 20:10 NLT
    Kill Nonbelievers – 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB
    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God – Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT
    Kill Followers of Other Religions – Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT
    Death for Blasphemy – Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT
    Kill False Prophets – Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT
    Infidels and Gays Should Die – Romans 1:24-32 NLT
    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath – Exodus 31:12-15 NLT

    Kill Sons of Sinners
    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

    Kill Men, Women, and Children
    “Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

    Rape and Baby Killing
    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

    Kill Your Neighbors
    Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, “All of you who are on the LORD’s side, come over here and join me.” And all the Levites came. He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.” The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing.” (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

    I’m sorry what was I saying? Oh yes as you can see there is NOTHING in the Bible that is comparable to what is in the Qur’an!

  56. Gordy,

    No I DO NOT believe Jesus (PBUH) died. So according to your theory the ‘miracle of Jonah’ was that he repented and therefor he was saved? Despite being tossed into a storm and being swallowed by a whale and remaining in the belly for 3 days? Really? Seems to me the miracle is that he didn’t die from that experience!

    You said “so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights” Unfortunately (according to most math calculations) Jesus (PBUH) was not in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. He was taken from the cross (Friday) at approximately 6pm (follow to Saturday at 6pm = 1 day and 1 night)……… follow to Sunday morning when you say he ‘Ascended’ ….. This is only 1.5 days and 2 night? Hmmmmmm my math must be off!

    Jesus (PBUH) was a great Prophet – his divinity was created by Paul who never met him! Nowhere in the Old Testament do you see the trinity. Why? The trinity was ‘man made’ and absolutely makes no sense!
    1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. …………. Man placed Jesus (PBUH) beside God not Jesus (PBUH)
    According to Paul in Romans 5:18 it is the righteousness, and not a death that brought about justification before God.
    The reason I believe many Christians support the idea that God sent his son to die is twofold: a. this is what they are told from Sunday school on and is portrayed as one of the fundamentals of Christianity; and b. is based on the assumption that since God foreknows everything and therefore also Jesus’ death he must somehow also have ordained it. God did not need the death of his son to forgive sins.

    “If every Imam in every mosque and country in the world teaches his own brand of Islam, who IS the one who speaks for Islam?”
    Nowhere did I say that every Imam in every Mosque is teaching their own version of Islam. WOW can people not read? Seriously, I feel like I’ve repeated something in a foreign language! I said ““Every citizen has the right to dislike or ‘hate’ extremists but what you do not have the right to is …… to umbrella ALL as a whole! Hamas is not the spokesman for Islam! Al Queda is not the spokesman for Islam. Citizens need to realize that you can not blame a whole for the few!””

    This is what’s happening here – I basically say “How un-Christian” it is of everyone to “JUDGE” ALL Muslims based on the Extremists Groups (Hamas, Al Queda) and that not all Muslims should be ‘clumped together’since the extremists are NOT the voice of Islam. Suddenly its a debate about “Those bad bad governments in Islamic countries …. they have the same beliefs as the terrorists groups – see the atrocities they commit! Your wrong Sameeha – all Muslims are the same” THEN I point out the atrocities that the US Government has done – the Catholic church has done AND by all comments (but my own) I should be entitled to ‘clump’ ALL Americans by the deeds done by their chosen Government and I should be entitled to ‘clump’ all Catholics by the deeds of their Pope/Priests. OH NO NO NO Sameeha – you can’t do that! We aren’t them! They don’t represent us like that!
    BUT JW, Ms Taylor and Gordy – you all are able to do it to Muslims as a whole! I’m sorry but I have listed detailed examples and yet you still want to brow beat your idea’s at me (which won’t change my stance). Therefor, do not say “I hope Christ bless you and keep you safe” because Allah has kept me safe! Allah has shown me the hypocrisy and it is evident in all the postings. It appears that ALL your judgments are not first hand experiences – they are exactly what I see said repeatedly in the “Media”. But I do wish one thing – I do wish for everyone who has “Judged” the wrongly accused ……. I hope Allah forgives you!

    I think as Christians – you should focus your studies on the history between Christians and Judaism. You might be surprised to learn what’s really going on in these modern days! Good Luck to all of you!

    • I pray for your salvation Sameeha, You need serious deliverance. You spend your energy trying to disprove the word of God where you are wrong in all accounts, and take passages out of context. May God save your soul before it is too late for you. And Islam is not a religion of peace, it is an evil ideology that effects every aspect of a Human being’s life, it is the shackles that the devil uses to keep people in bondage. Thank God for people like Mosab who are courageous enough by the grace and power of God to reveal truth. Christ said not all will be saved, and that is very true. In the end Christ WILL riegn, and ALL will confess that He is God. May God have mercy on your soul!

  57. There are plenty of similarities. The God of the Bible ordered violence at certain times: targeted, specific times. To my knowledge, there was never a general order to conquer the world. And that violence, it could be argued, was used for a specific purpose, namely to demonstrate the destructive nature of sin, which was ultimately demonstrated in God sacrificing himself to save us from that destruction.

    I think that’s a little irrelevant though.

    I think the discussion was about inerrancy. God in the Bible never references “the Bible” as such or claims that the work later compiled in his name was free from contradiction, at least not in the textual literary sense. In fact as you know, there are more than one versions of Canon, depending on who compiled it.

    The Qur’an, however, makes a claim for the entire received text, directly saying it is perfect and no word can be changed. But then why have a doctrine of abrogation, or even hadith? That says to me that people found it necessary to perfect something about the Qur’an. So it’s an issue for Muslims where I think it’s more of a “well, yes” for Christians.

    You say I can’t understand the mental gymnastics to reconcile this because I’m an unbeliever. I’m curious, try me.

    • Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to to the post above the most recent. Should have hit reply.

      Also, in reply to the more recent post, I have no problem with Muslims, and I agree that good people shouldn’t be judged for the bad. It is the religion that I disagree with.

  58. Ms Sameeha,
    You are excellent at dodging questions! Have you ever considered running for public office?

    I asked you how many rape convictions from Muslim countries in recent centuries? No Answer. I guess there are none to speak of?

    Still no answer about whether or not it is correct to kill converts from Islam and now an attack on the Bible.

    A closer look at the Scriptures you mention will show that God uses war as an instrument of justice against the most depraved and violent of people groups. He does this at the appropriate time and only after they have been warned repeatedly to turn from their sin.

    He does not displace righteous people. We see this in the Torah when he tells Abraham it is not yet time for him to take possession of Canaan in Genesis 15:16 —
    “In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

    He is not going to kick the Amorites out until they “deserve it”.

    Please take note that two “pagan” women are included in the bloodline of Jesus Christ. Rahab, from Jericho, evidently knew of the One True God and knew that He was coming to take the city and decided to turn to Him and be saved. He not only saved her but richly rewarded and blessed her, a prostitute no less! He is so wonderful. He would have done that for any of the Canaanites who turned to him even at the very last minute. It is also very unlikely that many women or children were actually killed in these attacks because they would have been moved out of the cities. God always warns people and everyone has the opportunity to receive his blessing and salvation.

    You have mischaracterized many Scriptures by using your words for God’s
    For instance: Genesis 1:31 God saw that it was very good. (God was satisfied)
    Genesis 6:6 God was grieved that He had made man and his heart was full of pain. (God was dissatisfied)

    This does not mean he is satisfied and then dissatisfied; His original workmanship (the creation of man) was just as exquisite and wonderful (ver good), but man had turned against Him and so he was very sad (grieved).

    Also a mischaracterization on your part here:

    “Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.”

    God is telling the Israelites what will happen to them if they do not turn back to Him. He is not telling them to be ruthless in their war efforts. Ezekiel tells us that during the time of their worst rebellion, they were sacrificing their own babies on the altars of the Baals. God is saying if they do not stop, serious judgment is headed their way. Also, keep in mind that any babies or young children that are killed in these wars go straight into his tender and loving arms.

    You typed a lot so I’ll try to get to more of it later. Anyone else have any thoughts?

    Of course, the punchline of the Christian Bible is that in the end, God Himself proves his Love by coming off his throne, putting on skin to be beaten, tortured and die on a cross in the place of the created beings. Our biggest problem is sin and He knew we needed a Savior – that is an Amazing Love.

  59. Sameeha,

    How am I judging the “whole” by the “few”?

    Don’t the all Islamic countries (BILLIONS of Muslims) sanction the murder of converts from Islam, even their own sons and daughters. This is the law of their land. They are the “whole”!

    I am judging the “whole” by the “whole”

    • Ms Taylor,

      You are excellent at dodging questions! Have you ever considered running for public office? I just might :0)

      I asked you how many rape convictions from Muslim countries in recent centuries? I did not answer this because I do not know – so why post inaccurate numbers – do you know how many rape convictions there are in recent centuries?

      “Don’t the all Islamic countries (BILLIONS of Muslims) sanction the murder of converts from Islam, even their own sons and daughters. This is the law of their land. They are the “whole”” Again you did not read what I had wrote earlier – as I said before (and this is the last time I will make reference to this)
      “The Qur’an in itself is perfect! This can not be argued! Democracy in itself is perfect! This too can not be argued – BUT it is in whoever is doing the translating and implementing – this is where the imperfections creep in.” The world is full of Evil Tyrants and Islam is not alone in this! I gave a prime example of this earlier – yet you probably did not read nor address it – so I will re-post (and this again will be the last time I make reference to this):

      Afghanistan (99.7% Muslim) Everyone knows
      of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan,
      carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the
      Taliban. But how many people know that during the late
      1970s and most of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a government
      committed to bringing the incredibly backward nation into
      the 20th century, including giving women equal rights?
      What happened, however, is that the United States poured
      billions of dollars into waging a terrible war against this
      government, simply because it was supported by the
      Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly
      increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which
      is what occurred. In the end, the United States won, and the
      women, and the rest of Afghanistan, lost – more than a million
      dead, three million disabled, five million refugees, in total about half the population.

      So why when you had an actual Government who was ‘trying’ to right the wrongs – would the US interfere and PLACE a dictator who held ‘despicable’ beliefs into power? And again, I ask you – with all the ‘rants’ about how truly awful Islamic countries treat their people (and others) due to Sharia laws – why does the US not say a word about Saudi Arabia? They have THEE worst record of all Islamic countries! But they are ‘bestest friends’ with the US (and SA is praised repeatedly by the US).

      Israel is a self proclaimed Democracy – yet it commits horrific crimes on a population solely on the fact that they are not Jewish! (on top of the belief that it is their God given right to have ALL the land) – will you say that the WHOLE of Israel then evil?

      Nowhere in the Quran is it suggested that a Muslim who renounces the faith should be given the death penalty – or any penalty. Indeed, Islam’s holy book proclaims, “Let there be no compulsion in religion”, and elsewhere that “Those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the Way.” This verse suggests only a heavenly punishment, not a worldly one.

      The claim that apostasy is a capital offense results from medieval Muslim jurists’ conflation of apostasy with treason. Treason remains a capital offense in some secular, western countries, including the US, as it does within Islamic law. But the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) never had anyone executed for apostasy alone. In one case, in which a Bedouin man canceled his pledge of allegiance to Islam and left Medina, the Prophet only remarked that “Medina is like a pair of bellows: it expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good.”

      Do not attempt to make it appear that I defend ANY government whether it be American or otherwise – Those who oppress others should be dealt with severely! And yes if I lived in the ME – my firm belief in the Qur’an and the misguided uses of it would probably lead to my death but those who do live there live under the tyranny who use the Qur’an to ‘validate’ their dealings – again the same as the “Hamas’s and the Al Queda’s” BUT that is not the majority of what Muslims believe. Do not pretend that you would do any different if it was you living in that land. Muslims do not go against their governments – because if they did they would end up in the Islamic version of Guantanamo Bay! Those who twist the word of God will be punished!

      But with that being said – with such blazing righteousness you present here regarding such a ‘backwards, tyranny’ of a religion – maybe you should take some of that fire and stop your own Government from doing the same crimes against Humanity (only they call it Foreign Policy). You don’t want to associate yourself with the ‘crimes’ as they are not who you are or what you believe but they are still there. You said I could not compare Islam and the US – yet we are debating the Governments aren’t we? Therefore the two co-mingle.

      Someone very smart once said “Only God can judge me.” and I believe that one day we ALL have to pay for our actions, words and beliefs! If I’m wrong in my beliefs – I’ll pay! But if you are wrong – rest assured that you will pay also!

  60. Sameeha, Respectfully, you exhibit a lot of anger. You should ponder the source of that. All the best to you.

    • Sorry Gordy,

      I don’t exhibit anger – I believe if you read (yet again I have to repeat myself) what I said was ‘why do I have to continual repeat myself as if you ‘skim’ over what you don’t like and only focus on what your next argument is going to be about). The only thing I ponder about is how intelligent people have the ability to point out such ‘evil’ doings in one spot – yet embrace another. So it seems that people are either 1) going with what they perceive the ‘lesser of the two evils’ OR 2) condone what one is doing yet condemning the other. Truly mind boggling!

      Thanks for the thought though!

  61. My question was poorly worded, Sameeha, how about the number of rape convictions last year? That shouldn’t be too hard :-)

    One more time here on this pont — I AGREE with you that the US government has been deadly wrong about some of their actions since WW2, in the name of imperialism or fear. I think the US as a “whole” WILL be judged by God – for killing 50 million unborn children, failed “foreign policy”, etc. I have done what I can with my prayers, voice and vote to be part of the solution.

    But you must agree that the Islamic states are right in their
    legal persecution and killing of Christians/crimes against humanity, or you would speak against it. I have given you many opportunities to say they are wrong for this and yet you refuse.

    If the Billions of people following this “religion” accept such an evil interpretation, then they are the “whole” to be judged. You are correct that Jehovah, the Lord Almighty, will be the ultimate Judge although the thing He most strongly desire is to save.

  62. Getting back to the point of Joseph’s post.

    The ideology behind this type of government that executes religious dissenters for “treason” is not what we want taking root here on our soil. This is what a mosque at Ground Zero represents.

    I urge everyone to take a stand against it in the name of freedom.

  63. Mosab, are you familiar with the Christian author Oswald Chambers? His book “My Utmost for His Highest” is a great devotional. I thought of you for today’s devotional. Please read it for encouragement: http://utmost.org/

  64. What do these share in common and do we really need to say more? If you’d like to read more check out “Voice of the Martyrs’ or persecution.org. There are more heartbreaking stories. What the Christian community needs to remember is that we need to love Muslims and fearlessly preach the gospel to them. Their eyes are blinded, there is a veil over their hearts, Satan has blinded them and they’ve bought into and believed a lie.

    NEWS ALERT: Netherlands Party Condemns Indonesia Militant Threats Against Christians
    The Dutch far right Party for Freedom (PVV) says the Netherlands should demand that Indonesia improves protection of Christians amid reports that hard-line Muslims prepare for a religious war with that country’s Christian minority.
    BREAKING NEWS: Afghanistan Christians Detained Amid Execution Threats
    Over 20 Afghan Christians have been detained in Afghanistan after high-level leaders called for the arrest and execution of converts to Christianity in the Islamic nation, an advocacy group said Friday, June 25.

  65. Patrick, If you go to Jihadwatch.com they report that in 2009 the FBI Directorate of Intelligence announced there were as many as 15,000 websites and web forums that were supportive of terrorist activities. 80% of those existed on U.S. based computers. In polls taken in muslim countries, a large percentage of those populations support a jihad against America. There are 1.3 billion muslims worldwide….Let’s say just 10% support the jihadists which is the low end of estimates I’ve seen……we’re talking 10’s of millions of muslims who support more 9/11’s against this country. Chilling. So called moderate muslims are either playing possum or they are incredibly naive. I don’t buy naive when you have American raised young men in our neighborhoods becoming extremists in the muslim schools and mosques on our soil. The relatives know…

  66. My thanks to Mr. Mosab! I thoroughly enjoyed hearing you speak, and I plan on reading your book! Thanks for loyalty to our Savior Jesus Christ, and thankyou for your efforts in spreading the Gospel. A mosque right next to Ground zero… obviously, most people don’t care what events took place there… how the lives of my friends and family were stolen. Building a mosque there is like a slap on the face to the victims….

  67. A mosque at ground zero IS a slap in the face to the victims. This ISN’T coincidence. Why did they purchase the property at ground zero, because they couldn’t build it anywhere else, because it was a good investment, because it just was a wonderful place to build? Please don’t think Americans are that ignorant or will stand for this. I think if the NY planning and zoning commission let this go through and what ever politicians name is on this permission should be thrown out of office. Don’t give me some bullcrapping comment that Muslims are peaceful people if they are in favor of this mosque. This will bring about more separation and tension and hate if it is allowed to happen. The imam of this mosque wants to bring about sharia law here in the US where we have our own laws.

    From a previous poster:
    “America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity.” DUH!!!! People who came to America to worship their religion, was the majority Christians!!! If they did not immigrate here to have freedom to worship their religion, it was to improve their lives, start a dream or increase their wealth. The fact is that most immigrants were Christians and of course most of the leaders WERE Christians. Like minded people immigrated here. It is a fact, not a flaw. Just like the majority of the religious in Mid East countries are Muslim.

    I ask the Muslim community why they are supporting this if they KNOW that this would tick off Americans in light of 9/11. Why do they want to rub salt in the wound? I would ask the Muslim community why are you supporting Muslims wanting to invoke Sharia law here in the US where we have our OWN laws in place. This is not the Middle East you knew it when you moved here, don’t like it, move out!

    This

    • Hey Lisa,

      Why don’t you tell us how you really feel?? Joking. I like your post. Just don’t let what others say “live in your head”. That would be a waste of good space. You’ve made some real good points as does Elizabeth. Can you even imagine a Muslim women making comments as we have on this site??

      I’ve been trying to get answers from Muslims at MuslimMatters.org & they do the same as some on this site. Seriously, if you want a migraine, all you have to do is discuss Muslim religion & Islam with Muslims. Our country isn’t perfect but I’d sure rather live here than in Iran, Iraq or other Muslim countries. I tried to get one Muslim on the other site to tell me why he moved to America.
      Needless to say, I was given a lecture on sites I read & no answer.

      If Muslims believe their religion & Islam are so great, then why are they here in the U.S.? Why aren’t they trying to make life better for ALL muslims in their own countries? This is a question I can’t get an answer to. Most of the people on this site continually state that we don’t object to the Muslim religion. We object to Islamic laws, Sharia laws & do not, will now, accept them in the United States Of America. Period.

      There was a comment above about the U.S. supporting Saudi Arabia. No. That’s our idiot administration. If we could stop it, we would. Muslims in our country should read the mail that goes to our government officials. They’d understand that, we the people, are fed up with their BS & all the crap they continually do. Have they not noticed that WE THE PEOPLE are firing congressmen & senators for their negligence of our needs & what we say? We are trying to stop the use of fossil fuels so that we don’t have to deal with any other country for oil. We want America to go “Green” & rely on solar power & other energy sources. WE The People hate what our administration is doing to this great country.

      How to get American Muslims to understand how & what we think is frustrating to say the least.
      A mosque at ground zero, even a mile from it, is wrong. The majority of Americans have stated this. It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with WHAT IS RIGHT for the majority of Americans.

      So yes, if they don’t like it hear or our laws, go home. Take your Islamic & Sharia laws with you. We did fine without it before & I’m sure we wouldn’t miss it in the slightest. And no, I’m not a bigot nor a racist & I believe in freedom of religion. I just don’t believe in your laws (Muslims). Don’t want them here, ever. Can even one Muslim tell me how any American can tell which Muslims are good, decent human beings & those that are not, when we can’t separate the religion from the laws? Or anything else for that matter.

  68. Here’s something else I came across on-line:

    Imam Feisal Rauf, who is leading the charge to build Park 51 (formerly Cordoba House) in New York City, supports Shariah law courts in the United States of America, is tied to the funding of the Gaza Flotilla , called the United States an accessory in the 9-11 attacks, and will not designate Hamas a terrorist organization. This Imam and his mosque must be stopped.

    Every citizen should be concerned and speak out to stop this insanity. Where is it written in our cultural or civil law that we must “tolerate” people who have aligned themselves against us and our way of life?

    • Something of interest for you? Maybe

      NEW YORK, August 4, 2010 – In response to the New York City Landmarks Preservation Committee’s unanimous vote allowing the building of the Cordoba House mosque and community center, Rabbi Eric Yoffie, President of the Union for Reform Judaism, and Rabbi David Saperstein, Director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, issued the following statement:

      We welcome the planned construction of the Cordoba House mosque and community center in Lower Manhattan. Although we fully recognize the strong sentiments that have characterized the debate over the center, we strongly believe that Cordoba House’s presence will reflect our nation’s historic commitment to religious liberty. After consulting with rabbinic and lay leaders of our New York area synagogues we express our belief that the decision to allow the Cordoba House to move forward best embodies our values and the interests of the New York community. We affirm our abiding commitment to the principle of religious freedom that ensures that houses of worship not be subject to discrimination and to the principle of religious equality that ensures the right of the Muslim community to locate and build its houses of worship like Jewish, Christian or other houses of worship. We hope that our congregations will work with the leadership of the center on issues of common importance.

      We commend Mayor Bloomberg, who has always supported the rights of the Jewish community as he has those of all religious communities, for advocating the position that the New York community will be enriched by this Center and for his view that New York should not embody in its actions any form of religious intolerance or discrimination. We commend as well the decision yesterday of the Landmarks Preservation Committee paving the way for construction.

      The principle of religious freedom on which the United States was founded has demonstrated that our nation is strengthened by the faith of its citizens and the houses of worship in which they gather. The Cordoba House will now join the countless churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples that populate our landscape and enrich the spiritual lives of their congregants.

      Seems only the “Christians” are upset by this building.

      • It is not just Christians it is Americans. Your facts slam America. As Christians we are called to be discerning.

      • 3 Thoughts:

        #1 they smile to our face but curse us in their heart

        #2 The US lost its soul decades ago

        #3 No need to fear. God is Sovereign. He specializes in taking evil and working it for good.

        Hope you are well Sameeha
        Love,
        Elizabeth

    • Elizabeth,
      I also recently read the Rauf is a slum lord. Many law suits filed against him for apartments with rats, cockroaches, bedbugs, no heat or water. And he’s a tax evader. Hasn’t paid his property taxes for quite some time. I was trying to find the article to post, but haven’t yet. If I find it, I’ll post where the article is written.

      Also, I found an article concerning the Gaza fiasco. The one ship that disobeyed the warning & fired on Israeli soldiers were IHH. Another terrorist group, I believe from Turkey. Don’t quote me on that. If I can find that again, I’ll post the site.

  69. I agree with you entirely Mosab.

  70. Sameeha G.,

    While you defend the construction of a mosque at 9/11 site, I’m sure you know Saudi Araiba does not allow even one Christian or Jewish church? I suspect most of the $100 million it is going to take to build the mosque is coming from Wahabi influenced Saudi’s. Any comment?

  71. I thank JESUS that Mosab and more and more people turn from islam to
    JESUS turn from darkness to the light and from dead works to the mercy
    of GOD.

  72. Susanne, I looked at your link and had a thought or two, which I posted actually:

    To Carl Medearis:
    You make good points regarding how Muslims can worship and follow Christ within the context of their culture and religious traditions; Bible addresses this with regard to “Jews” who “became Christians”

    However isn’t it true that Mosab Yousef is viewed as a traitor principally because of his denial of Allah and Islam and his embrace of Christ as the Savior-God? He would still have been a “wanted man” if he had stayed in Palestine for sure; probably he would be dead.

    I agree with what you are saying about Muslims staying within their culture to be salt and light but your position is one-sided and assumes God has the same plan for all Muslims who “convert”.

    Joseph, remember Romans 14:4

    “Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.”

    You are the Lord’s servant; what matters is obeying and pleasing Him. He will make you able to stand.

  73. Elizabeth Taylor, glad you posted over there. Maybe Carl will reply. I don’t know him personally, but have read his two books and read his blog. He has a real love for Arabs and wants them to know Jesus as their Savior.

    I think he rejects the way Mosab presented himself. I have a Christian Arab friend who lives here in the United States who believes Mosab was used by the Christian Zionists in this country to promote their own cause. But as you said maybe this is what God wanted for Mosab. Definitely it seems he did no favors for Christianity in the Arab world since he tied following Jesus into being a traitor (the Israel part). It’s one thing to follow Jesus, but when you add that to helping out an oppressive enemy, it’s like mixing church and a really racist state. I think Mosab did nothing to help his people know Christ if that was his goal. But I tend to think it was not or else he was exploited for his sensational story. I think we all know how popular anti-Muslim or anti-Arab stuff is. Kind of like all the anti-Soviet stuff from years past.

    I like Carl Medearis and Nabeel Jabbour because they show practical ways we can love our enemies whether they are Arab or Muslim and show them Jesus. We don’t need to be putting up more walls between us and our “enemies.”

    Thanks for your reply.

  74. Mosab presents himself as someone who is following Christ’s command to love your enemies. How did he help an oppressive enemy? God put him in a unique position to save the lives of Palestinian and Israeli men, women and children. Do you think he did the right thing? I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from, unless his testimony bothers people because they love their country more than they love their Savior?

    Galatians 3:28 (New International Version)
    28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  75. Elizabeth, thank you for the opportunity to clarify myself. I meant if Mosab wanted his people to see the “dangers of Islam” and be attracted to the Jesus of the Bible, he didn’t do a good job. By aligning himself with Israel – whom many see as a racist apartheid-type state – and then in essence “bragging about it” (how they will likely see his book and interviews), it didn’t show the love of Jesus to them.

    It’s like one of us converting to Islam and telling our American Christian brothers and sisters how great it is to follow Allah and then for Christians to find out that one is helping the Taliban.

    Most Arabs see the Zionist State of Israel not in a favorable way. For good reason. When you mix helping them with a new-found faith in Jesus and then claim you want to help your people find Jesus, it just doesn’t work out so well.

    “I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from, unless his testimony bothers people because they love their country more than they love their Savior? ”

    His testimony bothers people because they see him as converting to Christianity AND helping their enemy (Israel.) If he’d just converted to Christianity and showed his people the love of Jesus, that’d be great! But when you convert and then tell how you helped the enemy…not so great.

    • Susanne430,

      I think you have things mixed up. First of all Mosab had just learned teachings of Jesus Christ. This gave him the strength to do what he needed. He wasn’t trying to preach Jesus to anyone. When he first started working for the Shin Bet, his goal was to gain their confidence, then kill them. The more he learned about Jesus & the more he worked with the Shin Bet, the more he realized he didn’t want to kill anyone.

      He wanted to try & save many no matter who they were or what they believed in. His actions were because of his new beliefs in Jesus. Yes, he would want Muslims to understand Jesus & God’s ways, but by no means was he a traitor.

      If one only learns the history (real documented history) of Israel, the Holy Land, Arabs, Palestinians & Islam, they would understand many things. The word “Allah” in ancient times was a “moon goddess”. An idol. Most Arabs in the Asian countries are not even related to Abraham’s son. Many Arabs came from the Isle of Crete & were known as the Sea People. Millions of Arabs who were immigrants moved into the area now known as Israel after British rule. They were from many different tribes. Palestine became named around 1948. When Israel became a state, they did not demand or request that Palestinians move out. The government officials of the area (not Israel) told them that Israel was going to slaughter them so they should move for their own safety. Once they all left their homes & ended up in the settlements of Gaza, the officials ignored them. No help at all. Used them to start more hatred towards Israel.

      The Holy Land, now Israel, is the rightful land of Jews. There are many historical documents stating these facts. The Jews were made to leave their homes by the Romans. Over the years one waring tribe or another took over ruling the area. God has given the Holy Land to the Jews of Israel. They only lost it when they sinned against God.

      History, documentation from many well known people from every country, holy scriptures, & so much more show that without a doubt that this land, the Holy Land, is the natural home of the Jews throughout history. When someone makes a statement about indigenous Arabs, they don’t know how wrong this statement it. Read up on history. They were poachers & immigrants.

      Maybe you’d like to re-write history. To do so you’d have to go back way before Jesus was born.

      If the Muslim people would stop hating for two minutes & try to embrace love, maybe they could see things as they really are. Muslims don’t even have liberty. Especially the women. The only reason women must stay covered from head to toe is not to entice men. Well why haven’t men been taught restraint, morality, being responsible for their own actions, the meaning of the word “NO”? Women have little to no rights. The men do what they want, how they want & take what they want. They make the rules. That’s how Islam was made.
      By men. God would never condone the actions of most Muslims concerning Israel or Christians.

  76. Hi Susanna,

    A few thoughts:

    If Mosab had just converted to Jesus Christ (pubicly), do you think Muslim Palestinians would have thought it great?

    “It’s like one of us converting to Islam and telling our American Christian brothers and sisters how great it is to follow Allah and then for Christians to find out that one is helping the Taliban”

    …an interesting perspective. I realize most Palestinians see Israel the way we see the Taliban, but to be an honest and fair person, you have to ask yourself what he helped the Israelis do and why?

    The answers are that he saved people from bombs, including the suicide bombers themselves (which I found pretty amazing and Christ-like), so no problem there, right? They “see” him as helping their enemy, but what is the truth, or are you saying it doesn’t matter?

    Also, he told his story to help people with open hearts and minds understand this in a new way so there can be peace.
    If there is to be peace, at some point, people on both sides will have to forgive and forget, trust the Lord and move on in His Spirit. Otherwise, there’s no hope. Mosab is trying to facilitate this understanding.

  77. Susanne, was wondering if you have read Mosab’s book and also which sections caused you to form your opinions.

  78. Susanne, Just checked out your blog – great write up on Jephthah!

  79. One more thing – (sorry).

    Christians are commanded to share “Truth in Love” — 100% Both!

    Also, in Scripture, God deals with individuals and then He deals with nations/cities (eg. Abraham/Lot and Sodom). So it is with us. We take issue with governments/nations for their sin/injustice (US and abortion, Muslim execution of religious dissenters), while recognizing that on the personal level we must unconditionally love people who find themselves in tough situations dealing with regrettable choices, or those that may persecute us. These souls also must hear truth at some point or all the loving we do is for naught.

  80. Elizabeth, I don’t know if Mosab could have lived within his cultural context as a follower of Jesus and shared his change of faith that way(such as Carl suggested on his blog.) Maybe he could not have. All I’m saying is that by coming out as essentially (to the Arabs) a traitor by helping Israel, he put up a huge wall. They may now think being Christian equals talking bad about your own people. To most of them that is a HUGE no no.

    I like to think Mosab had good intentions, but he just,in my opinion, didn’t do anything to make his people want to follow Jesus. If my goal were to share the good changes Jesus had made in my life with my people so they would leave the darkness of Islam, then I would not have erected such a wall as this. It’s like he wrote that book for a Christian Zionist, Muslim/Arab-hating audience of Americans. He didn’t seem to take into account how this would hurt his people. But maybe his goal was NOT to share Jesus with them. So…

    Maybe I should read his book. I became familiar with Mosab after his story came out on FOX news a year or so ago. I have friends in Syria and an Arab Christian friend here in the US. I got feedback from them about Mosab’s story and that’s how I’ve based my opinions – by asking Arabs what they think.

    Mosab’s story is GREAT for Americans who already are disgusted with Muslims and Arabs. It just feeds into the stereotypes we already have. But his story is HORRID for Arabs especially Christian ones who want their people to know Jesus, but not the Jesus that turns you into a traitor to your own people. (That’s the way most of them see it.)

    For an example see Zayd’s (he’s Moroccan) comment on Carl’s blog. It’s just a couple above yours.

    If you really want to reach Muslims for Christ and know their hearts, I suggest the books I mentioned above. They will soften your hearts towards Muslims instead of perpetuating the hatred of how bad they all are. It’s good to see people with eyes of compassion and that’s what Nabeel Jabbour and Carl Medearis helped me do in their books.

    Thanks for your replies. I’ve enjoyed what you said.

  81. Susanne,

    In order to be able to judge the intentions/impact of the book, you’ve really got to read it.

    As I said before, God’s plan for each individual (leaving Islam) will vary, if the Bible is any indicator. Also, He will try to get his message across in more than one way. I think it is completely Scriptural that God would send someone from the inside to speak on an international level about the false god Allah and the souls he claims. America may have been the safest (only?) place for Mosab to do that. God’s ways are not our ways – that’s for sure!

    Not sure about “Christian Zionism”. I don’t see this as a Zionist issue; I see it as YHWH/Jesus versus ALLAH. Perhaps we should all try to move past our biases and ask God how He wants us to see it. We cannot limit God to our cultural “box”, American or Muslim.

    There are “stereotypes” and then there is the Truth. If the truth is that Islam is bent toward the destruction of the West and the conversion/killing of all infidels, then you can’t blame Mosab fault for pointing it out. If you read the book, you will also see his compassion for the Palestinian people who are trapped in this cycle of violence as well as his strong love for his family and sadness at losing them over this.

    As an aside, I do ponder whether or not God intended 9/11 as a discipline against America to get us to wake up, turn away from our sin and back to Him. That is probably very politically incorrect! :-)

    To your point, it is good to try to develop compassion for others and I could probably work on that. We have to guard against seeing all Muslims as demon worshiping killers. They are human beings, deeply loved and cherished by God. Christ has given himself for their souls and we should ask God for a deep love for them in our actions and our hearts.

    Take care, Susanne!
    Elizabeth

  82. Of course, I have one more thought to tack on!

    Perhaps, it would be good for Arab Christians to ask God to give them a deep and abiding love for Israelis as cherished creations of Christ, and try to resist seeing them all as Zionist enemies.

    Christianity does not mean talking bad about your people, but it does mean seeing the truth about all things in an effort to bring about change and healing, especially for your own people.

  83. Elizabeth, first let me say thank you for a pleasant discussion of this matter. I truly appreciate your perspective.

    Yes, I suppose it would be good for me to read the book. I was sharing more of the Arab reaction to his initial story making news in the US (the FOX report several months back) because I tend to think most of the Arabs won’t read his book. But maybe I’m wrong and they will be curious enough…if they can even find it in their countries!

    My goal is for people to love their enemies. It seems Muslims and/or Arabs are often perceived nowadays as our enemies so I am all for books whose goal is to understand the Muslim perspective. That’s why I recommended those books. (I promise I’m not their publicist or anything of the sort! :-D I just truly felt they helped me understand better *and* develop a compassion and understanding of the Arab/Muslim mindset that I never had before.)

    We don’t see it as a Zionist issue because our country has strongly favorable views of Israel. Again,you really need to read Nabeel’s book. He’s a Christian who grew up in the Middle East, who was even a missionary to his own people. He understands their mindset. Coupling work for Israel with a Christian conversion doesn’t set well with the vast majority of Arabs or Muslims.

    I agree that God can use any situation. Thanks for reminding me of this. I pray God will use Mosab to share his people’s story so Americans will have a more balanced view of the Arab mindset and we can start loving our enemies instead of further demonizing them. It seems when we fear people, we fail to love them as Jesus instructed us to do.

    I traveled to Syria last year and the people we met were honest, kind, hospitable – truly wonderful people! So I love your last paragraph, of course. I hope more people will think like you in that regard.

    Thanks again for this conversation! You are very kind. :)

  84. It’s been a great conversation, Susanne! I will put those books you suggested on my list.

    We have a friend who recently returned from visiting friends in Syria as well, and said it was very nice. I’ve done some travel internationally; maybe I’ll get to go someday :-)

  85. If the popular rumor is true that President Obama is not a US citizen yet, he became a president, how about the Mossab Hassan Yousef for President of the US?

    • Isaac,

      That’s a loaded question. From my little knowledge of Mosab, I think I just might vote for him if he ran for president. Especially if he didn’t run on either ticket R/D. As a Muslim turned Christian, I think he’d have a greater understanding concerning “many views” of many countries. Food for thought.

      Maybe we should wait & see what happens. First of all, Mosab would have to be an American born citizen. Ok, as I said it, I realized your question becomes obsolete. He’s not. Darn. Well, even tho he wouldn’t qualify to be an American president, I see no reason why he couldn’t be an advisor to our administration. Even now.

      God Bless

  86. Mosab, I have read your book and I agree with you 100% If America as a whole lets this happen we will not only be disrespecting the deaths of thousands of Americans but we will show that we are both weak and america cannot stand up for herself. We need to show both as Americans and more importantly as Christians that this sleeping dragon is going to wake up!

  87. This is very interesting! I would really like to know what we can do about it…

  88. […] 英語の分かる方は、「ハマスの子」の著者モサブ・ハサン・ヨーセフ氏による記事もお読みください。 […]

  89. Brilliant piece of writing Mosab! Just like you book. Please write some more !!!

  90. Elizabeth Taylor, is there anyway I can contact you privately? My e-mail address is under my picture on my blog’s profile. You can write me there if you feel comfortable doing that. I wanted to talk to you about something on Carl’s blog. Thanks!

  91. This is my first reading of your writing Mosab – I will be reading more. Well done – very thoughtful.

    After reading through the comments to this post, I’ve come to see that what really pains me is seeing debates where religious views from one book are used as basis of argument to attack religious views of another. It makes no sense, and forms the root of the problem born centuries ago – there is no reality, there is only perception of reality. The fighting will continue forever as long as each religion believes their views are the “true” reality.

    It is unfortunate that common decency, courtesy and respect for one another is so hard to embrace. The U.S. is not on a nationwide manhunt for every Muslim/Islamic person living within its borders…so why is it considered OK for a Muslim group to build a mosque in such a place that smears mud on the faces of families of the innocent victims?

  92. NO MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO. IT IS A SIGN OF VICTORY OF THIS BULLSH..
    ISLAM IDEOLOGY AND A MORTIFICATION OF ALL VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

  93. Dear Mosab,

    Thank you for sharing your story. I would like to keep in touch and share from the Scriptures with you. Your story is impressive and humbling. I cannot thank you enough for telling it to the world.

    In Christian love,

    Andrei

  94. Whoops posted this on the wrong post… sorry… try again…

    Is Obama trying to insult us??? I am both very offended and disgusted by this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10973459

    Brother Mosab, perhaps you would like to write a post commenting on this line from the above URL:

    “Al-Qaeda’s cause is not Islam,” he said, “it is a gross distortion of Islam”.

    • Since Al-Qaeda kills both Muslims and non-Muslims,I’d say that’s true. They have become an extreme form of Islam and kill anyone who doesn’t measure up to their particular standards.

      Because of our First Amendment the Muslims should be able to build the mosque. We don’t have to like it and we can wish they’d be more considerate about offended folks’ feelings, but it is what separates America from most Muslim countries: freedom of religion.

      It makes me sad because this ruckus is causing followers of Jesus to hate more when we should be overcoming evil with GOOD. I think this is what separates us from Islam yet we are doing exactly as many of them do. Hating, hating, hating. Being offended and so forth. We need to get over our feelings and just do what Jesus did.

  95. Hi Mosab,

    Just wanna say thank you for sharing your faith story. I pray that you and your family will be reconciled very soon.

    Esther
    Singapore

  96. I respect you Susanne, but I have to disagree with your view.

    A mosque at this location is a political statement. It has nothing to do with First Amendment religious freedom which Muslims enjoy in abundance here in the US.

    It proves what people from the inside have been saying all along, which is that Islam (moderate, uninformed or extreme) is bent toward world domination, establishing their prophet and Koran as the new World order.

    This should be not be “tolerated” at the state level.
    What we Jesus followers need to do is to voice concern/truth/opposition respectfully in the public arena, while still loving Muslims from the heart on an individual level. Speaking Truth in Love is what separates us from Islam.

    As Christians, we do this routinely (following the example of John the Baptist actually) in all other areas of public policy. The model applies to this debate as well.

    I don’t think I’m hating anyone by speaking against this mosque.
    As always I appreciate your thoughts and you are right that we should pray to sincerely love people as Jesus did.

  97. Elizabeth, thanks for sharing! This guy summed up the way I feel about it pretty well. :)

    http://www.militantginger.com/2010/08/should-there-be-ground-zero-mosque.html

    I don’t WANT it there, but if I am a constitutionalist can I make the rules that people can or cannot build a religious building simply because I don’t like it…or it’s too political? What happens when secular America starts dictating they don’t want fundamental or evangelical churches because evangelicals are getting waaaay too political? I don’t like the idea of a mosque there one bit, but it’s hypocritical to say it’s fine for some and not others. I wish the Muslims would be considerate and agree that this is in poor taste.

    We can do like one of my friends said and check it later for terrorist activity and if we find it, confiscate the Islamic Center and turn it into a YWCA. :)

    Really, I’m tired of all the fearmongering about Islam taking over the world. The Bible says GOD is the one who causes people to rise and fall. He is the one who sets people in office. He is the one who raised up idol-worshiping nations (Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians) to punish his own beloved Israel! Why do we feel like we have to politically work to change God’s will or bring it about? I find this usually involves making some out to be evil and hated and looked at with suspicion when I find Jesus not really working that way at all. His kingdom was not of this world so I think we should stop focusing so much on this as well.

    And I’d never think you would hate anyone even if you spoke against the mosque, but I only caution against it because of comments I’ve seen where people are saying “nuke ‘em all” in relation to Iraq and Afghanistan. These are people we are to love so why this fervor to kill them? Followers of Christ *should* be known for their great love and compassion and generosity to ALL people. How come we often have a reputation as being the ones most easily offended, hateful, intolerant and suspicious of Muslims when we have the power of God at our disposal to actually love our enemies? They follow their holy book, why do we not take God seriously and abide in Jesus (John 15) so we can love and reach out to sinners like He did?

    Please don’t think I’m accusing you or anyone specifically, but it’s the vibe I get from reading blogs and comments from “good Christian people” these days. And it makes me sad to see us living by fear instead of loving people and leaving the world politics in God’s hands.

    Thanks for your comment. I respect your views as well.

  98. I enjoyed reading your comments Susanne.

    I’m going to try to tackle each point specifically.

    I think you are saying that it IS to make the statement that Allah means for Islam to dominate the world. This move does not constitute the simple exercise of religious freedom. So we agree here?

    Secondly, is it hypocrytical or unconstitutional to deny them this right at this location?

    Americans in general have lost sight of the fact that this country was founded on Christian principles which is WHY freedom of religion is valued and protected. God values a person’s right to choose him or reject him. If we forget the source of our freedom (God), it will be no more.

    God established the church to facilitate the relationship between Himself and mankind; and the government to deal with relationships between men. Church and State are separate because of Him, not in order to exclude Him so we can govern ourselves!

    Denying Muslims a mosque at Ground Zero does not interefere with their right to freely worship, nor does it establish Christianity as the religion of the United States so there is no problem with the Consititution. This is an American country founded on Christian principles of freedom and respect for all peoples. Muslims need to respect and understand that. The Imam of this Ground Zero mosque would like to change it to Sharia (the location in and of itself makes the statement) and that should not be tolerated. Ideas have consequences. “Cultural neutrality” is a myth.
    I don’t see it as fear-mongering, just the simple truth.

    Yes, God is in control of history. He is in charge of who dominates the world scene and he did raise up cruel enemies to discipline Israel. I have little doubt that we are headed for something major since we have turned our backs on God and outlawed Him from our collective midst. And it could involve Islam (9/11?)

    There are two areas we need to be aware of in handling these types of issues: the “Political” and the “Individaul”.

    God does want us to speak truth into the culture (eg. John the Baptist – whom Jesus called the greatest born among men – and Herod). He also wants us to deeply love people one on one.

    We also sometimes forget that real change happens by Christians living Jesus, as you said Susanne. Change will begin in our own homes by humbling OURSELVES before God —
    2 Chronicles 7:14
    if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

    So anyway, maybe we agree more than disagree? :-)

  99. What do you/we reply to those sympathetic to bldg the Mosque who sight how many American Muslims were also killed 911. I personally think its incredibly insenstive.

  100. Mosab, I’ve just this evening finished your book and my heart is filled with admiration for your commitment to what is eternally true. As it happens, my husband is leaving for a two week trip to Israel w/his daughter tomorrow. It’s not possible for me to accompany him, and I’m glad he’ll have this chance to travel w/his daughter – probably a last chance since we have reason to believe she’s about to become engaged to marry. We both sadly agreed it would not be prudent for him to bring your book w/him on this journey.

    Your suggestion that the Cordoba Initiative (the name alone should raise the hair on the back of the neck, but doesn’t in our PC riddled country) build a hospital or some other useful contribution is excellent. I’d an idea too: How about since Imam Rauf is so intent upon teaching Americans the true meaning of tolerance, he go over to Saudi Arabia or Palestine – or anywhere in Islamically dominant places, and work w/the locals to get a war memorial honoring the victims of 9/11 erected? You know, in a show of good faith — in solidarity w/the (supposed) vast preponderance of Muslims who entirely reject the ideals that motivated Osama bin Ladin and Company. That would sure impress this American as a fine example of tolerance!

    God bless you for you honesty and courage; for your love and real fidelity to your parents and to the quiet and true voice inside your heart. I completely trust you will all be together in the next part of our eternal lives.

  101. Hello Americans,
    I am originally from Indonesia, an Indonesian citizen. And I stay in Indonesia. I know exactly how and whether Islam is, should not allow the mosques was built, even throughout the U.S.!
    They only bring bondage and not freedom. Are not United States the country of freedom? as depicted in The Statue Liberty? not mean that should free up a shackle to shackle us.
    Budhi.

    • Good Day Budhi MTP
      I would very much like to converse with you on a one to one email. If you would agree.
      I do not know any in Indonesia & have many questions. This goes both ways. So, if you would like
      a pen pal here in the states, please email at: pawprinz@earthlink.net

      I would be so happy to hear from you.
      Sincerely,
      Jean Muprhy

  102. Dear Mosab! Thank’s a lot of your book! I just read it here in Finland in Finnish and gave it already further to my friends. It was so interesting and I learned much of the situation in West Bank and Gaza. I hope it will open people’s eyes in the whole world, but also the eyes of your own people, family and friends! I wish you all the best and Gods blessing day and night! I’ll visite these sites in the future to hear about your news :-)! Remembe Ps.91!
    Let us often pray for Mosab and for his safety! Remembe also his family and friends, that they also would find the way to Jesus Christ!

    And you Americans! Wake up!!! Denying Muslims a mosque at Ground Zero is a must!!! I cannot understand how you could allow a mosque in that place where so many innocent of you lost their lives! Have you forgotten our God?! Have you given up in your own country?!?

    I visited that place three years ago and would like to see there next time something, that would remain me of those victims not of those, who destroyed their lives. You christians, don’t give your babyfinger… but pray for muslims and everybody in this world, who don’t know Jesus Christ, the Son of God, our Saviour! God bless you all :-)!

  103. Alma,

    Hello. I noticed in your comment that you live in Finland. I’m from the U.S in California. I’m very interested in getting opinions from those of different countries. I agree with your comments above.

    Would you care to be pen pals via emails? I too have Mosabs book & in the process of reading it. Then I have friends to pass it on to who also want to read it. He’s a great gift from God. I hope his life in Hamas can help others see a clear way to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Please let me know if you would like to converse. You can email me at: pawprinz@earthlink.net

    God Bless
    Jean

  104. Wow Mosab, it is truly evident that while being a traitor to your people that you arent afraid to further your agenda thru the use of Hamas in name. You are further fanning the fames of racial ignorance and fear of the unknown by filling people with such lies that it was Islam that caused 9/11. I wish you had been deported. Then justice would have been served!

  105. “You are further fanning the fames of racial ignorance and fear of the unknown by filling people with such lies that it was Islam that caused 9/11. I wish you had been deported. Then justice would have been served!”

    I take it that the “racial ignorance and fear of the unknown” you refer to must, in your mind, be the exclusive domain of anyone who is not Muslim.

    I could write a real defense of Mr. Mosab, but he really doesn’t need any defense. He is a brave and seriously conscientious man who has displayed the deepest meaning of jihad with his inner struggle to find his truest – his truest – not yours, mine or anyone’s but his own – relationship to God. He has respectfully used his original religious teachings in a way that most people could not even dream possible – nor would most people have the moral courage to do what he’s done by following his highest inner calling. You call him a traitor? Traitors are a dime a dozen, Solange. People betray their highest callings routinely. This issue of betrayal seems to be a deep one for you. May I suggest that you read Joseph Mosab’s book – very carefully – and apply his wisdom to your own life. At the very least, it will make you a better Muslim.

    God has no religion! God loves us all equally. Because of this, we all have the right to choose our own true path. Mr. Mosab has chosen Christianity – and not once – not once – did I get even a hint of anything but his deep love for his own people. But your own people do not own your soul. One’s soul, Solange, belongs only to God.

  106. مصعب ، فإن المترجم لا لي العدالة نفسه ويجيد اللغة العربية. وأقر هذا. ومع ذلك ، أنا لست مهتما في هذه التعليقات من المشجعين الخاص التي من شأنها أن ترسم لكم ونوع من المسيح للشعب الفلسطيني. حقيقة الأمر هي أنه بدون اسم لحركة حماس ، التي لم تكن تعطى البث. والحقيقة هي ، أن كنت صنع اسم لنفسك على اسمهم ، وتعزيز جدول الأعمال الخاصة بك. لقد كنت على استعداد للحكم على المحاكم الأميركية إذا كانوا قد رحلوا لكم ، لأننا نعرف أنه في اللحظة التي تغادر الولايات المتحدة الأمريكية انت رجل ميت. اشعر بالاسف للآباء وعائلتك أن ابنهما قد يجلب لهم العار من هذا القبيل. وخصوصا عندما تأسست إسرائيل من جانب الإرهابيين ويكرم أعمال ارغون. كيف يمكن دعمها ضد شعبك عندما تكون أسوأ من ذلك؟ ويسرني أن يكون لديك المشجعين وتزلف في جميع أنحاء لكم ، بسبب وجود عدد متساو من شأنها أن لم يكن ، وأنه لن يذرف دمعة إذا كنت أخرجت إذا كنت العودة إلى الأرض التي جئت. لا للحظة واحدة يعيشون في الوهم!

  107. This is a translation of the Solange:
    Mosab, the translator is not justice for my own and speaks fluent Arabic. He admitted this. However, I am not interested in comments from your fans that will draw you and the type of Christ the Palestinian people. The fact is that without the name of the Hamas movement, which was not given airtime. The truth is, that I was making a name for yourself on their behalf, and promoting your own agendas. I’m ready to reign in U.S. courts if they leave you, because we know that when they left the United States you are a person who is dead. I feel sorry for the parents and family that their son might bring them shame this kind. Especially when Israel was founded by the terrorist Irgun and the honorary job. How can I be supportive of their own people when they are worse than that? I’m glad to have fans and lick all over you, because there will not be the same amount, and will not shed a tear if you removed when you return to the land that I came. Not for one moment the illusion of life!

  108. Was it bad weather or something?

  109. As a Newbie, I am continuously searching online for articles that can help me. Thank you

  110. Mosab,

    It looks like you were thought Islam from the radical prospective that’s why you think Islam is evil. Radical Islam emerges in coutries torn by war, poverty and illiteracy. The occupied Territories fit that example.

    Verses in the Quran from Sura A-Tawba that you keep pointing out to show that Islam is evil are verses during which God is talking to Mohammed and his followers at that time. They were revealed because of a certain event in the muslim’s life at the time. These are not addressed to us and are not commandements for us.

    Anyways, it’s odd that you think Christianity is a true religion. Many Christians who became muslims have pointed out that there are many contradictions in the Bible.

    I was born in a muslim country but grew up in the west and had the chance to renounce my religion if I wanted. I read a lot on my own and I’m happy and thankfull that I am a muslim. I have been living here for a long time. Many of the muslims who became ex-muslims, reverted back to Islam before dying. Hope God al mighty guides you to his true path and think a bit…God does not change his religion. Since he created the firt man on earth, his religion was the same, so why people decided to deviate to believing that God is 3 (a God that morphosises). Christianity is a mix of Roman Paganism and Judaism. Hence, the idea of trinity has been adopted by Christians and a lot of Roman pagan religious customs are present in Christianity.

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